August 16, 2005 The Role of the Fact-Finding and Outreach Coordinator BG–05.022 - August 16, 2005 The Coordinator has two key responsibilities. First, he will be the principal conduit of information between those with concerns and the Government of Canada. The Coordinator will hear the concerns of the community, ensure those concerns are communicated to both government and those completing the fact-finding tasks, and will inform the community about the fact-finding work being conducted for the government. I can't help but think that this position is just another step between government and the people. As the primary focus of his work, he will communicate with people who have concerns, including current and former citizens who live and lived near the base, current and former CF members and current and former civilian employees of DND who may have been present during the spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown from 1952 to present. Included in this outreach are those people who have been identified as being present during the testing of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and other herbicides in 1966 and 1967. I and many others certainly look forward to voicing our concerns, opinions, questions and fears. What is your contact info Mr. Blaneyr? The Coordinator will provide a report to the Minister of National Defence documenting his discussions with people, including some personal comments. integrate the results from a paper-based research study and his discussions with people in a report for the Minister of National Defence. This report will be an important consideration in subsequent decisions made by the Government of Canada. The Coordinator may also suggest additional research that could be useful to the government in dealing with this issue. Secondly, the Coordinator will be the guardian of the fact-finding process. He will liaise with the Government of Canada through a committee of assistant deputy ministers from departments including the Department of National Defence, Veterans Affairs Canada, Health Canada and its agencies, the Pest Management Regulatory Agency and the Public Health Agency. Through ongoing liaison with government, the Coordinator will be able to assure that information is shared between the different aspects of the project to ensure consistency and thoroughness. He will provide relevant information obtained from government to the local population, and inform the government of any findings, information and questions that emerge through his outreach activities. "He will provide relevant information obtained from government to the local population"  Will he provide ALL information? The Coordinator will establish an office in the Oromocto area and will have a small staff to support his activities. Tasks The Coordinator will work with government officials responsible for coordinating three fact-finding tasks (for more detail of these tasks, see associated fact sheets). Fact-finding Task 1 will seek to identify, to the extent possible, through a paper review and initial contact, former and current serving Canadian Forces' members, and former and current civilian employees of the Department of National Defence (DND) who were present at CFB Gagetown during the spraying of the herbicides in question . This task will involve the determination of when they were present and in what capacity. The contractor completing the paper review will share the findings with the Coordinator on a weekly basis to facilitate the Coordinator's outreach activities. Only information on current and former CF members and DND employees can be captured by this task, as they are the only groups for whom the Government of Canada has records. In addition, the Coordinator will attempt to capture as much information as possible about current and former citizens of the area through his outreach activities. Current and former citizens of the area can also call the government's toll-free number (1-866-558-2945) to identify themselves. Fact-finding Task 2 will be a review of the history and science of the spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown from 1952 to present day and an assessment of the ir environmental fate and impacts. This task will also incorporate assess the results of environmental testing undertaken by CFB Gagetown in summer 2005. Again the testing procedures have been criticized. Fish and wildlife need to be tested. Fact-finding Task 3 is divided into two parts: Part 1 is a health study that will assess potential risks to human health from the herbicides used at CFB Gagetown, based on the properties of these products and the probability and degree of exposure (type, volumes, concentrations, application conditions, and frequency of use, etc.).                    We all know they will find probabilty conveniently low   Part 2 is a descriptive epidemiological study, which would determine whether there is a higher incidence of illnesses in the population in the area surrounding CFB Gagetown, versus a control population from elsewhere. This study will include illnesses that the scientific and medical communities have previously associated with exposure to the types of herbicides used at CFB Gagetown. A study which would determine whether there is a higher incidence of illnesses in the population in the area surrounding CFB Gagetwon, versus a control population from elsewhere. Awww c'mon guys give us a little credit!!!  According to DND figures there were 150,000 troops pass through Gagetown during the years in question. Those people are not there anymore!!!! You need to be studying those troops and there families not the population that is there now. The Coordinator will co-chair, with DND's Assistant Deputy Minister (Infrastructure and Environment), three steering committees that oversee the fact-finding tasks. He will also share and explain final report results to the public as soon as they are received. A The Government will use a fair, open and competitive process will be used to select the non-government experts to undertake these three essential tasks . DND will be responsible for all contracting for Fact-finding Tasks 1 and 2, and Health Canada will be responsible for all contracting for Task 3. These tasks will help provide a clear and consistent set of facts that will allow the Government of Canada to make responsible, informed decisions about future actions. ________________________________________________________________ August 16, 2005 Government of Canada Approach to Fact-Finding on the Use of Herbicides at CFB Gagetown BG–05.021 - August 16, 2005 The Government of Canada is committed to identifying and reporting on facts surrounding the use of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and other herbicides during the specific test periods in June 1966 and June 1967. It is also committed to identifying and reporting on facts surrounding the use of all herbicides sprayed at Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Gagetown from 1952 to present day. This approach is based on historic and scientific research that will gather a clear and consistent set of facts and allow the Government of Canada to make responsible decisions on future action. Three months for them to admit spraying before and after 1966 and 1967. As part of this process, the government has developed an approach to identifying military and civilian personnel who were present at CFB Gagetown during the testing of Agent Orange, Agent Purple, and other herbicides during the specific periods in June 1966 and June 1967. In addition, the Government is committed to identifying military and civilian personnel who were present during the eight to 12 weeks per year when spraying of herbicides occurred each summer from 1952 to present.  How about wives, children and civilians who were not personnel?  Fact-finding Approach The government understands and acknowledges that citizens in the area surrounding CFB Gagetown are concerned about the long-term and cumulative impact of the use of these herbicides on the environment and on their health. As a result, it will provide an opportunity and means for citizens, as well as current and former CF members and DND civilian employees, to identify themselves and their specific concerns to an external Fact-finding and Outreach Coordinator in the CFB Gagetown area (see The Role of the Fact-finding and Outreach Coordinator ). In addition, the Coordinator will work with government officials responsible for coordinating three fact-finding tasks, which will be conducted by contracted, non-governmental experts. The first task involves collecting information regarding people who were present at CFB Gagetown during the spraying of the herbicides. This task will involve the determination of when they were present and in what capacity. The contractor completing the paper review will share the findings with the Coordinator on a weekly basis to facilitate his outreach activities. The second task is a review of the history of the spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown from 1952 to present day and an assessment of their environmental fate and impacts. This task will also incorporate the results of the soil, water, air and vegetation testing conducted at CFB Gagetown in the summer of 2005. Do you mean the soil, water, air and vegetation testing that has been criticized? Testing of fish and wildlife need to be done. Why is the air being tested? You might test the air if there was spray or mist in the air. Of course there will be a good chance of there being a zero reading in the air. Task 3 is divided into two parts: Part 1 is a health study that will assess potential risks to human health from the herbicides used at CFB Gagetown, based on the properties of these products and the probability and degree of exposure (type, volumes, concentrations, application conditions, and frequency of use, etc.). Part 2 is a descriptive epidemiological study, which would determine whether there is a higher incidence of illnesses in the population in the area surrounding CFB Gagetown, versus a control population from elsewhere. This study will include illnesses that the scientific and medical communities have previously associated with exposure to the types of herbicides used at CFB Gagetown. Part 1 ..This is the one that scares me. You just know they are going to find the probability will be next to non-existent. Part 2. A study which would determine whether there is a higher incidence of illnesses in the population in the area surrounding CFB Gagetwon, versus a control population from elsewhere. C'mon guys give us a little credit!!!  According to DND figures there were 150,000 troops pass through Gagetown during the years in question. Those people are not there anymore!!!! You need to be studying those troops and there families not the population that is there now. Work Underway in the Government of Canada The Department has initiated a soil, vegetation, air, and water sampling program in the range and training area at CFB Gagetown. The results of these tests will be made public. To date, with the records available, there is no indication that Agent Orange and Agent Purple were tested on bases elsewhere in Canada. That said, as a related and longer term due diligence project, National Defence will initiate research to determine whether Agent Orange, Agent Purple or other herbicides tested in 1966 and 1967 at CFB Gagetown were ever tested at other Canadian Forces military bases. This project will also involve a factual review of all other herbicides used at military bases across Canada. They may not have been "tested" on bases elsewhere in Canada but my sources tell me they were used on other bases. Disability Pension Program Veterans who were present during the testing of Agent Orange or Agent Purple at CFB Gagetown during the 1960s may be eligible for a disability pension from Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC). The department has been encouraging veterans who think they have a service-related illness to call for pension information. Since June, VAC has received over 700 calls related to this issue and has set up a special review team to handle the applications. Yes the veterans "may" be eligible for a pension because they still have to prove it. No presumptive clause here Veterans who think they have a service-related illness can call VAC at 1-866 522-2122 (English) or 1-866-522-2022 (French) for pension information. _________________________________________________________________ August 16, 2005 News Release Government Announces Approach Regarding Use of Herbicides at CFB Gagetown NR–05.067 - August 16, 2005 FREDERICTON – Indian and Northern Affairs Minister Andy Scott announced today, on behalf of Bill Graham, Minister of National Defence, the Government of Canada’s approach concerning the use of herbicides at CFB Gagetown. The approach involves three fact-finding tasks, and a major outreach initiative headed by Vaughn Blaney. “As Fact-finding and Outreach Coordinator, Vaughn Blaney will contribute greatly to the Government of Canada’s approach to addressing this issue,” said Minister Graham. “Our approach is thorough and open, and will provide a clear and consistent set of facts that will allow the Government of Canada to make responsible, informed decisions about future actions.” As Coordinator, Mr. Blaney will be the principal conduit of information between those with concerns about herbicide use and the Government of Canada. He will hear the concerns of the community, ensure those concerns are communicated to both government and those completing the fact-finding tasks, and will inform the community about the work being conducted for the government. As the primary focus of his work, he will communicate with people who have concerns, including current and former citizens who live and lived near the base, current and former CF members and current and former civilian employees of DND who may have been present during the spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown from 1952 to present. Included in this outreach are those people who have been identified as being present during the testing of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and other herbicides in 1966 and 1967. “Vaughn Blaney is a credible voice in this community, having served as the mayor of Gagetown, as a teacher and school principal for many years, and having served as minister of the environment for New Brunswick, as well as minister of other departments for nine years,” said Minister Scott, Member of Parliament for Fredericton. “Many citizens, veterans, civilian workers and residents have valuable information and tremendous local knowledge of the base and surrounding areas,” Mr. Blaney said. “Some of these individuals have come forward already. All interested people and groups will be invited and encouraged to come forward and give us their personal accounts, whether it be in community centres, church basements or in their own kitchens.” Mr. Blaney I look forward to the first forum and will do my best to be there!  Perhaps this time it could be held on on a weeknight or even better on a weekend when people could go without taking time off work. I'd bet you would get a much larger crowd than was present at the base theatre forum in June. Just between you and I rumour has it that they didnt want alot of people at that forum. If a forum is held It would be nice if it were announced a couple of weeks ahead of time. It would allow people from out of the province time to travel. I like the "kitchen" idea...very homey...comforting.... good "PR" but let's be honest no one will come to my kitchen. If they do 'll put the coffee on. In addition to his outreach activities, Mr. Blaney will work with government officials responsible for coordinating three fact-finding tasks, which will be conducted by contracted, non-governmental experts. The first task involves research of government documents to collect information regarding current and former Canadian Forces members and civilian employees of the Department of National Defence who may have been present when herbicides were sprayed at CFB Gagetown, and ascertaining the cicumstances. The second task is a review of the history of the spraying of herbicides at CFB Gagetown from 1952 to present, and their environmental fate and impacts. One thing about DND ...they keep wonderful records. After all thats how we found out about the 1.3 million litres of defoliant being sprayed. Task 3 is divided into two parts: Part 1 is a health study that will assess potential risks to human health from the herbicides used at CFB Gagetown, based on the properties of these products and the probability and degree of exposure (type, volumes, concentrations, application conditions, and frequency of use, etc.). Part 2 is a descriptive epidemiological study, which would determine whether there is a higher incidence of illnesses in the population in the area surrounding CFB Gagetown, versus a control population from elsewhere. This study will include illnesses that the scientific and medical communities have previously associated with exposure to the types of herbicides used at CFB Gagetown. Veterans who were present during the testing of Agent Orange or Agent Purple at CFB Gagetown during the 1960s may be eligible for a disability pension from Veterans Affairs Canada (VAC). The department has been encouraging veterans who think they have a service-related illness to call for pension information. Since June, VAC has received over 700 calls related to this issue and has set up a special review team to handle the applications. I'm having trouble with the wording of "Veterans who were present during the testing of Agent Orange or Purple during the 1960's may be eligible"...it bothers me... that "testing" term...do you mean the "testing" that was done during 1966 and 1967?..and what about the 1950's and 1970' and the 1980's? Techincally all the other years the defoliants weren't being tested. They were being used. So are we back where we started? Are you saying only the vets affected during 1966 and 1967? Please explain. Veterans who think they have a service-related illness can call VAC at 1-866 522-2122 (English) or 1-866-522-2022 (French) for pension information. -30- The only thing here I like is that they finally admitted that there was spraying before and after 1966 and 1967.   -Art    _______________________________________________________________ August 16, 2005 First Name: Marc Last Name: MacLean City: Province: E-mail Address: Comments: I'm a bit concerned that we get tunnel vision in focusing on dioxin and agent orange. Agent white and its hexachlorobenzene are just as problematic and persistent in the environment. If we fail to ask the truth concerning it then we won't get the truth. There is much less evidence refuting the toxicity of HCB. I suspect because the gnmt scientists got tunnel vision in trying to defend their stance on agent orange and dioxin. The VA statement is disappointing in that it shows that a modern veteran doesn't receive the same benefit of the doubt as our veterans off the past did. It also indicates the onus is on the vet to gather this absolute and unobtainable evidence they insist on. I have a cancer that can be attributed to HCB. A benign tumors of the endocrine glands. I have other diagnosis' that can be attributed to dioxin and HCB. neuropathy, GERD, IBS, and depression. I was in and all around the training area for 6.75 years March 1980 - July 86 eating and drinking off the land, living in trenches and under hoochs. Most of the time with my belly on a wet ground or with my boots soaking up the soup at the bottom of my trench. Who's to say now after all these years that all this ground and water wasnt polluted? It makes sense to that it was; our bivouac areas, the many weapons ranges, live fire ranges, and artillery ranges. This was a maintenance plan that spread defoliants over a 25+ year period of time. They don't just defoliate to remove forest canopy; they do it also to kill and prevent brush or tree growth in open fields as a form of maintenance. E.g. NB power and their power line corridor maintenance. This is one of those cases where I deserve the benefit of the doubt that the VA act so properly allows. As my Grandfather was allowed; how did he ever prove that he was mustard gassed? He didn't, it was assumed because he was there. These are much less generous days for our vets and their families, and in a time when we can better afford it. But I've been 2 years now trying to get them to help me build a case. They've only so far just keep asking me to prove the case on my own. Finding a doctor in this strained medical system is near impossible, and when I do, I find there are no qualified people with the appropriate facilities. How opportune for them who are responsible to compensate. Ill keep this forum up to date with my VA progress. Should be interesting. Go get em Jody!! Go get em Marc!! Art __________________________________________________________________________ August 16, 2005 First Name: Wayne Last Name: Coady City: Cole Harbour Province: Nova scotia E-mail Address: wcoady@accesswave.ca Comments: Marilynn: I read your post and you are pretty much hitting the nail on the head when you say: " Money is all that counts with our government, our tax money, not the ex-military who put their lives on the line for this country or the civilians who lived and worked in and around the base all these years. DND is taking absolutely no responsibility for their actions and this is unconscionable to treat us this way." But Marilynn, this is the way I see this, "government" did not do this to us, what happened hear was done by the Liberal and Conservative Party. If “government” truly is we the people then why would we the owners of “government “ do this to ourselves? When I see political parties handing out tax dollars to their business buddies and poisoning Canadian citizens with chemicals made by the very business who fund their election campaigns, then we better find away to get rid of these self serving Political parties. I have learned over the years Marilynn, that “government” is not their to serve and protect its people, “government” has been high-jacked by a few who control the party and these few decide who sinks and who swims. Right now Marilynn, the “Liberal Party of Canada , not the “government” are deciding who will receive Agent Orange Compensation. The very people who wasted billions of tax dollars are now playing God , with lives. Do I trust politicians ? Not likely , after all it was politicians who approved the spraying of these deadly chemicals in the first place. All Federal parties are responsible. Wayne Coady __________________________________________________________________________ August 15, 2005 First Name: Susan Last Name: Evans City: Port Coquitlam Province: BC E-mail Address: susanevans@telus.net Comments: I lived in Burton just outside of CFB Gagetown from 1962 to 1968 as my father was stationed there.I now suffer from migraines and had hypothyroidism from 1988 until 2005 then it appeared as if the thyroid problem disappeared,no it appears that i am in the stages of hyperthyroidism although 2 doctors have told me that they had never heard of this happening.I am now in the process of being diagnosed as to what is actually happening with my thyroid.I moved from Nova Scotia to British Columbia 2 weeks after being told there was something unusually wrong with my thyroid and because of the move had to find a new doctor.I also have severe migraines and have had headaches since i was a child ________________________________________________________________________ From: Marilynn August 15, 2005 I'm saddened and angry at DVA's cold hearted stand but not surprised. At least they've finally made one publicly. Summerby said "Veterans Affairs needs proof and won't hand out money to people without clear evidence of exposure and harm. We're considering the claims on the basis of exposure likely to constitute a health threat. That's fairly direct exposure, usually through inhalation, ingestion or skin contact". What a slap in the face! Few doctors are familiar with these toxins and the health effects from same so we'll have a difficult time getting evidence from them and DVA is counting on that. The honorable route for the Government to go would be the presumptive route as the U.S did with their vets. Compensation was given based on the fact that the probability is EXTREMELY HIGH that their health issues (and deaths) were the result of exposure to these deadly toxins. The spraying in Gagetown went on for 28 years, in huge quantities! It was not contained. Sheffield is an example of that. I lived 4 kms from the perimeter of the training area and the winds blew the stuff into the town. It was on the grass, on the town golf course, everywhere. We are now finding out that areas of the PMQ's are contaminated. If only those "directly exposed" are counted, then that leaves about 682 people out of the 700 who applied that will be denied. You did not have to be "directly" exposed to be exposed to these deadly toxins as it blew in the winds, seeped into our soil and water and they know it. I don't trust any of their previous soil and water tests as these tests were done by DND, not an objective, outside company. Money is all that counts with our government, our tax money, not the ex-military who put their lives on the line for this country or the civilians who lived and worked in and around the base all these years. DND is taking absolutely no responsibilty for their actions and this is unconscionable to treat us this way. Thank God for the class action suit! We'll see them in court. The unfortunate thing is, they'll use their DVA/DND lawyers who are paid with our tax dollars so they can drag this on until our last grave is dug. I am so ashamed of our government. Marilynn _________________________________________________________________________ From: Jody Carr MLA August 15, 2005 Press Conference  Tonight, I have been invited to attend a Press Conference to be held tomorrow (Aug 16, 2005) at 2pm (Atlantic Time) Fredericton Motor Inn, where Andy Scott, MP Fredericton will unveil the Federal Governments response to the fallout of the Agent Orange issue at Base Gagetown.  What I am hoping to see tomorrow:  An independent, arms-length Review Panel (taskforce, committee, etc) Include the entire Dioxin-laced Chemical Spray Program starting with the opening of the Base in 1953 Be a process where the whole truth will be uncovered and recommendations made that will see all victims helped by the Federal Government by way of compensation (veterans and civilians) And the Review Panel must oversee and coordinate all three prongs concerning the issue: Compensation Environmental Testing Community Health Assessment   “Too many people have contacted me from throughout NB and all over Canada who claim to have been injured due to direct exposure to dioxin-laced chemical herbicides used at Base Gagetown for the Chemical Spray Program since 1956.  Throughout this issue since May, and for twenty to fifty years before, the victims and local residents have only wanted the truth.  It is time to clear the air.  When the whole truth is uncovered, only then can the Federal Government help all victims, veterans and civilians.  I am hoping tomorrow will be a step in that direction.  A step that will see all victims, especially my constituents, helped so we can all move forward.” Carr said.  For further information regarding the issue from my perspective visit www.jodycarr.ca   Im predicting we will hear that its going to take more time as they will tell us they need to do more and more studies..... I hope they prove me wrong. -Art   _________________________________________________________________________ August 15, 2005   Ottawa won't rubber-stamp N.B. claims for Agent Orange compensation   http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/4/index.htm ________________________________________________________ August 15, 2005 Agent Orange claims swamp Veterans' Affairs http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050815.worange0815/BNStory/National/ _____________________________________________________________________________ August 15, 2005 First Name: Marc Last Name: MacLean City: Edmonton Province: AB E-mail Address: marcmaclean@shaw.ca Comments: What I want is to see the difference between Canada and the USA in how we as a people handle a very similar social/environmental/health problem. I want to see that Canada is a safer place to live because we are led by good people with a commitment to the truth, and these leaders are a true reflection of the Canadian people. What I see is the same protectionist sort of ideology. The fiscal responsibility must be avoided so as not to bankrupt companies that are productive and valuable, along with super profitable and in turn very generous with political contributions. The Institute of Medicine IOM used for research in times like this as a reference by our government and its scientists is suspect. Below is a link and an excerpt from a report published in 2002. It's a good read on the subject of defoliation in Vietnam that was not Government funded or initiated. http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:0JbZvFAG4g0J:www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/A%2520%2520HISTORY%2520OF%2520AGENT%2520ORANGE%2520USE.pdf+chemical+defoliation+techniques&hl=en MARCH 2002: UNITED STATES-VIETNAM SCIENTIFIC CONFERENCE ON HUMAN HEALTH AND ENVIROMMENTAL EFFECTS OF AGENT ORANGE/DIOXINS - DIOX2002-16 Excerpt Air Force scientists involved in the study said they were pressured by non-scientists within the Air Force and the White House to change the results and delete critical information for the final report. Daschle says he has even obtained two versions of the minutes of the meeting in which that pressure was applied. One confirms what the scientists told him. Another set deletes that information. "What happened there was a fraud perpetrated by people whose names we still do not know," said Daschle. As always Marc...thank you ! Art  __________________________________________________________________________ August 15, 2005 First Name: LOIS Last Name: GRANT City: MIRAMICHI Province: N.B. E-mail Address: legrant@rogers.com Comments: MY HUSBAND DONALD DIED LAST MARCH FROM CANCER &WAS IN GAGETOWN IN /66 .   _____________________________________________________________________________   "A man good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards..."   -Theodore Roosevelt _________________________________________________________________________ August 14, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Dobbie City: Kingston Province: Ontario E-mail Address: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Comments: Hi Everyone I have been licking my wounds for the past few days as my doctors have just confirmed that I have developed Pheripheral Neuropathy and as a result, I have had another medication added to the list that I take. So now having Nine Disorders and Diseases which are all attributable to Agent Orange/Dioxin, Agent Purple/Dioxin, Agent White/Hexachlorobenzene, I am both angry and revolted. And right at this moment, I am very sick. But I am taking the time to write this because although I am sick, I am also invincible in my determination that our government(s) will answer for the negligence and criminal recklessness that was prevalent during the spraying of over 1.3 million litres of Dioxin and Hexachlorobenzene during the years 1956 to 1984 at CFB Gagetown. Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White covered 181,000 acres of CFB Gagetown. As a result of our actions, a question was posed to us a little while ago as to what we want. This is a question that I do not take lightly and I have a list that I written as to what we want. I am sure that others can add to the list. So here it is: What do we want??? Such a loaded question and yet such a simple one and having said that, there is really no simple answer. How does a government address the poisoning of perhaps thousands of people by it's own negligence, or rather the negligence of others that have gone before them. Because our current government were not the ones who did this to us. However, also having said that, our current government have taken ownership of the problem by denying that it happened and are continuing to deny that it happened. Thus I am of very mixed feelings about just what they should do. But in the real world, the following list is what should happen. First of all, they need to admit that it happened and I don't just mean a simple admission. I mean a detailed one. Very detailed. How much chemical was sprayed each year, exactly where it was sprayed, how many acres, what was actually sprayed, what concentrations, cost per acre, kill ratios, were troops or civilians present when the spraying was going on? Full admission that civilians and troops were involved and also poisoned. Full admission of negligence, full admission that they did not take any precautions. Full admission that they could have prevented their actions. Full admission that something should have been done when it was addressed to the New Brunswick Cabinet in January of 1985. After all, they knew then, TWENTY YEARS AGO that they had committed catastrophic negligence and the poisoning of the environment and military and civilian personnel. News conferences and public announcements in the papers. Secondly, the immediate establishment of a national database of persons who served at Base Gagetown, a complete listing of every soldier and family member and civilians and their families who were there from 1956 to present. They have the records, there is no doubt about that. Also by the previous admissions and publicizing them, it would help to bring forward people who may not be on recorded databases. Thirdly, a complete medical assessment of everyone that was present. Detailed medical questionnaires to establish who is sick, who has died, who is dying. De-toxification programs to begin immediately at the government's expense. Every effort should be made to acquire medical personnel who have this experience or if they cannot be brought here, then the government should pay all expenses UP FRONT of people who have to travel to de-tox centres. Fourth - A complete and immediate acceptance of a presumptive clause. Fifth - Immediate establishment of a half-billion dollar trust fund to begin with for the sick veterans, their families, civilians and their families, again the presumptive clause comes into effect in accessing this fund. The fund should be administered by a private company. Government to be totally hands off. Sixth - Complete and total transparent compliance in all aspects of environmental testing. Seventh - That all aspects of the environmental testing be done by a third party, NO government involvement, the current set up has the military involved to a large degree and that to me is a long way from total transparency. Eighth - If environmental damage is found, then an immediate quarantine of the affected areas to be put into effect. A no-go zone established until it can be determined how to de-toxify the areas affected. A separate trust fund set aside to deal with the costs of detox if found. Ninth - An investigation by the RCMP into criminal negligence causing bodily injury and death to be laid against the persons responsible for developing and carrying on the policy of defoliation. Tenth - A judicial public inquiry in which case the RCMP charges would have secondary importance but could be investigated consequent to a public inquiry. Eleven - Letters of apology to each person affected. Not form letters. The real thing or in lieu of letters, a public apology broadcast nationally and in major newspapers. Twelve - Compensation (non-taxable) grants of $75,000 to be given to each individual identified by the database listing of illnesses, this is in addition to the half-billion dollar fund established as mentioned in item number Five. After all, if the Government, as announced on Tuesday, August 9, is committing $150 million to the refurbishment of the infrastructure of CFB Gagetown, then they should at least be looking at a figure that is a little more than three times what they will spend on buildings. When did buildings take priority over peopleÂ’s health? This is just another appalling example of this governmentÂ’s total lack of respect and caring for the people who are sick and dying. When will they get it? Or will they ever get it? It is well past the time for the government to do the right thing. The above listed items are not by any means exhaustive or complete. This is only the beginning. These items are probably not in order. People who read this should start adding to the list and stand up and be counted. Sign the petition. DonÂ’t just read it. Sign and if you are sick and were exposed at CFB Gagetown sign up with the class action against the Government. Is the list realistic? maybe not in what the government will actually do by themselves, realistic in terms of public pressure and what a court will order, probably!. Kenneth Dobbie __________________________________________________________________________ August 14, 2005 From: Marc Maclean The plan of action Mr. Scott must be referring to; 1st Deny 2nd Discredit 3rd Lie and confuse them 4th Hope it blows over Excerpt - http://www.auroranewspaper.com/pdf/2632news.pdf Page 4, Paras 10 & 11 Dr. Stephen Tsekrekos explained the difference between Agent Orange, which was manufactured by the U.S. military, and commercially available herbicides that contained 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. "The distinction is because of the production process used to produce Agent Orange and Agent Purple," he said. "This process introduced larger amounts of the contaminant ‘Dioxin.’ When we look at spray programs, the same main ingredients are stillthere, 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, but it is that contaminant, Dioxin, that we are concerned about in regards to the health effects." The United States Institute of Medicine (IOM) is considered to be the world leader in research regarding the health effects of chemical defoliants. A 2002 IOM report on 2,4-Dand 2,4,5-T concludes: "Taken all together, the experimental data reviewed in this and previous reports indicate that 2,4-D is relatively non-toxic. For 2,4,5-T, the available data indicates that 2,4,5-T itself is relatively non-toxic." Institute Of Medicine 2004 report - http://www.iom.edu/report.asp?id=25476 If you have $53.50 USD you can have a hard copy too. Mumbo Bloody Jumbo Doctor Tsekrekos! I wonder if the good Dr and Major are aware there is a 2004 report on the subject. I’ve read it front to back and this doctor has trouble with reading and comprehension….. http://www.nap.edu/books/0309095980/html/8.html **Notice that agent white aka "Tordon 101" is not mentioned. The ingredient "Hexachlorobenzene" has more hard science proving its toxicity…. http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contaminants/dw_contamfs/hexachlo.html …. and Tordon 101 was used on a huge scale up to 1984 according to the documents acquired through the information act. They are posted on the forum here at www.agentorangealert.com Again I am insulted by my country. I can read Mr. Bill Graham. The article in the Aurora newspaper quoted "Aug 8th edition" is rife with inaccuracy and clearly put together only as a damage control effort. http://www.auroranewspaper.com/pdf/2632news.pdf You convinced me of your bull in 81 and then again in 85 only because I didn’t have the internet or a freedom of information act, and therefore no access to the research and documents. Not this time sir. The silly article suggests that the herbicides were absorbed by the forest canopy and quickly broken down by UV rays from the sun. OMG sir! How dumb do you think Canadian soldiers are? What forest canopy? Doesn’t defoliation mean the removal of the forest canopy? Dioxin and HCB are very well known and proven to be persistent in the environment. That’s the whole bloody point of the problem. I can tell you that Gagetown is full of swamp, bog, and very hard rock with very little soft soil. The high ground is full of shale rock and would not absorb the chemicals. They would easily run off too the low lying swamps and bogs. This article is a big disappointment to me. Not much of a surprise though. Thank you Marc. Excellent points. -Art ________________________________________________________________________ From: Sandy Skipton August 13, 2005 This past week in the Greenwood Aurora Newspaper (a military paper which can be found at http://www.auroranewspaper.com/ )  there was a reported item "Should soldiers who served in Gagetown be concerned about Agent Orange exposure" by Maj Jay Janzen, LFAA Public Affairs Officer. I responded to this item and hope it is printed this coming week... my response was as follows: Maj Jay Janzen has only covered what the government representatives said and has not reported what was said by the people that were looking forward to the government being honest and helpful. The government is saying that the spraying was only during 1966 and 1967, while there are military documents that show the spraying happened from 1956 til 1984. In 1964, the documents show, there was an incident due to weather inversion that caused the spray to move out of the intended spray area. Newspaper accounts of the time show civilian farmers got a $250,000 payout from the military one year after an accidental overspray destroyed their food crops. There seem to be many discrepancies in what the government is putting forth. These discrepancies have cause a Class Action Suit to be filed against the Minister of Defence and the Attorney General of Canada as representatives of the Canadian Government. Should soldiers who served in Gagetown be concerned about Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White?? In my opinion YES!!!! We should all be concerned enough to educate ourselves so that each of us can better understand the implications of what truly happened. One place that someone could start their education is www.agentorangealert.com where they can read media reports, government media releases and the horror stories of the people that were in the area at the time. Don't believe everything you read or hear until you have been educated or walked a mile in the shoes of the affected people. All any of these people are asking is that the government be respectful and honest. His article only wanted to deal with the 1966 and 1967 spraying. God I wish they would deal with the other years as well. Thanks Sandy! -Art ____________________________________________________________________________ August 12, 2005 There is still nothing from the committee studying the spraying at CFB Gagetown. On Wednesday August 3, 2005, we were told by CBC.ca that "An aid to Fredericton MP Andy Scott said on Wednesday that the government will be announcing it's action plan on Agent Orange next week. Andrew Holland said the government will deal with community outreach issues and the environmental testing among other things. Holland said it's taking so long because it was difficult to co-ordinate all the departments involved, and get everything passed by the treasury department." The following day on August 4, 2005 the CBC.ca reported that MP Andy Scott said that an announcement regarding Agent Orange would come soon. Scott wasn't specific about when the announcement would come, but said it would be very soon. Also on August 4, 2005 The Edmonton Sun reported the following "Steve Jurgutis, spokesman for Defence Minister Bill Graham, said a "plan to move forward" will be released in coming weeks. The committee needs to inform the public of its progress. Everyone is being left in the dark. It is necessary for the committee to keep us informed. It needs to tell us what, if anything it has accomplished thus far. The public understand that it is not an overnight process but to give us a time frame and then change it and feed us terms like "NEXT WEEK", "SOON" "VERY SOON" and "IN COMING WEEKS" is unacceptable. I will repeat .."UNACCEPTABLE". Time for the committee to become transparent. As I have said from Day One…. Do the right thing. Now while we wait for "next week",  "soon", "very soon" and of course "the coming weeks" to appear whatever shall we do? Hmmmmmm…. I know! Perhaps we could try to find out where in the PMQ’s the 4 contaminated sites are (or were) containing PAH’s (polycyclic aromatic compounds) which have been shown to cause skin cancer, while inhaling the substances can cause cancer to other parts of the body. -Art ___________________________________________________________________ August 11, 2005 Roll Over Mr. Graham (sung to the tune of Roll Over Beethoven) (apologies to Chuck Berry) Gonna write a little letter gonna mail it to my local M.P., Yay! There's a concern I want my government to deal with today Roll Over Mr. Graham, don’t wanna hear any lies today My temperature's risin, the veterans and civilians are blowin a fuse My heart's beatin a rhythm, singin out rhythm and blues Roll Over Mr. Graham, they're rockin in two by two Well if you feel you like it, go get your caucus and reel and rock it roll it over and move on up now, go for cover and reel and rock it roll it over, Roll Over Mr. Graham, tell Mr. Martin the news Early in the mornin I'm a givin you the warnin, don't you step on my blue suede shoes hey diddle diddle gonna play my fiddle, I ain't got nothing to lose Roll Over Mr. Graham, tell Mr. Martin the news M.P.’s wiggle like a glow-worm, talk like a spinning top They got a crazy perspective, you should hear them deny and talk Long as they got the time, the lies will never stop Well if you feel you like it, go get your caucus and reel and rock it roll it over and move on up now, go for cover and reel and rock it roll it over, Roll Over Mr. Graham dig these rhythm and blues Roll Over Mr.Graham, Roll Over Mr.Graham, Roll Over Mr. Martin, Roll Over Mr. Martin, Roll Over Liberals, dig these rhythm and blues   Just a little diddy to keep me occupied while I wait and wait and wait for the parliamentary committee studying the defoliant spraying to say something. We were told that we would hear an announcement within a week....7 weeks ago. Last week were told that we will hear an announcement this week. Yaaaaaaaawwwwnnnn. We are waiting. Again... I ask them to simply "Do the Right Thing" -Art _______________________________________________________________________ August 10, 2005 First Name: Wayne Last Name: Coady City: Cole Harbour Province: Nova scotia E-mail Address: wcoady@accesswave.ca Comments: One thing about politicans,they always express their concern, but once in power they do like all political parties, stick their head in the sand. The only political party that can fix this mess is in power right now and all other parties have not the power or the will to repair this mess, for them to suggest other wise is a lie and they only are looking for votes. You are a wise man Wayne :) -Art __________________________________________________________________________ August 10, 2005 August 9, 2005 was the 2 month anniversary of this website. As of yesterday this site has received 306,734 "hits". Thank you all for visiting and  contributing to the site. The months to  come will generate  far more interest and definitley more activity. As noted by the emails and contributions to the website the world is watching. Be patient be focused and be ready to do our Veterans proud! -Art _________________________________________________________________________ From: Agnes Conrad August 9, 2005 My husband was a solider at CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick from 1964 - 1966 where he was a Military Police and was on site when they were spraying the Agent Orange chemical and the soldiers were not provided with any protective clothing or masks. He died of lymphatic lymphoma at the age of 41, I am sure his life was shortened by breathing the chemical.  I think all the soldiers and the widows of soldiers who served at CFB Gagetown during the period of spraying should be compensated by the government.   A. Conrad ___________________________________________________________________________ From: Dan Pulsifer August 9, 2005 I have been trying to find a contact for some time now.I saw Ms.Dembrowski on our local news and used directory assistance to track her down.She was most helpful and I just registered with the civil suit. I was a civilian student hired as an employment program in the summer of "69 or 70" I'll have to do some scrap book browsing to be sure of the year.Regardless I was one of 250 or so students from the Maritimes who were hired to cut brush on the impact ranges. I remember that when we were having lunch in the mess tent ,the cooks would hear the spray planes and rush about closing window flaps so the spray wouldn't come in to where we were eating.  I was sent home early that summer with what I was told was strep throat .My throat was swelling to the point where I couldn't breath.I went home and everything was fine.  Then one evening 13 years ago my throat and tongue started to swell.I had to go to the hospital and be put on oxygen to keep from choking on my own tongue.This first episode lead to 13 years of pure hell.I was having attacks on an average of once every two weeks.I was told by an allergy specialist (one of the half dozen I've gone to) that my illness was not following the rules and that the cause and treatment would "fall through the cracks of medical knowledge".I am presently getting some relief from my condition using mega doses of anti-histamines but because they are not prescription I am spending $120.00 a month on pills.  To add insult to injury I am also unemployed as a direct result of my illness;who needs a sales men who can't keep appointments because he never knows when his face is going to swell up and be grotesque,or his tongue so swollen he can't talk. That is just a brief description of the pain and suffering that I've gone through to date  I am not optimistic about a cure but I'm glad someone is doing something.Good luck in your efforts .Dan Pulsifer __________________________________________________________________________ August 7, 2005 My name is Semra Yüksel and I am an award-winning Fredericton, New Brunswick-based documentary filmmaker. I am in the process of collecting information from many sources to produce a documentary film about the use of chemical herbicides such as Agent Orange, Agent Purple, Agent White at Base Gagetown and its effect, if any, on human beings and the environment.   I would like to hear from as many civilians, veterans, politicians, bureaucrats, scientists, doctors, lawyers, environmentalists as well as the relatives of deceased soldiers, veterans and civilians as possible on this issue.  In this way, all the players will be given opportunity to be heard and to tell their stories from their own perspectives.  It will validate my research and help me to produce a powerful story.   if you are interested in contacting me with information, here is my email address: acrolect@nbnet.nb.ca   I look forward to hearing  from you.    Regards,   Semra   Here is an opprtunity for EVERYONE to express what they want to say. Let's help Semra!   -Art   _______________________________________________ August 6, 2005 Yesterday I spoke with Mr. Stephen Harper, Leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada. Mr Harper was in London Ontario on his "Summer BBQ Tour". Mr. Dave Mackenzie Conservative MP for Oxford and his office staff ensured that I was given an opportunity to discuss with Mr. Harper, the agent orange spraying at Gagetown. Mr. Harper was very knowledgable about the sprayings that occured between 1956 and 1984. He expressed amazement and concern at a government that seems to be taking its time in resolving this issue. Mr Harper, like many, feels the Liberal government is stalling and merely waiting for the veteran's to die off. I explained to Mr. Harper that this story is not going to end...the fight will continue for the vets. He is in total agreement and says the government must and will do something about this situation.  Mr. Harper mentioned that MP's Dave Mackenzie and Gordon O'Connor have been working diligently to push the Liberal government to take action. Mr. Harper ensured me that they will continue to do so. -Art    ________________________________________________________________________ August 4, 2005 According to the DND website ... http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1711 NR–05.065 - August 3, 2005 OTTAWA – The Department of National Defence today announced it has received $45.5 million from the Government of Canada’s Federal Contaminated Sites Action Plan for the remediation of 17 contaminated sites. This funding also includes the assessment of an additional 12 sites. The funding for this initiative was provided for in the Federal Contaminated Sites Action Plan 2005/2006 budget. This commitment is part of the $3.5 billion in long-term funding announced in the 2004 Budget. All Departments and agencies that hold property must maintain a database of their contaminated sites. Information on the Department of National Defence’s known contaminated sites has been entered in Treasury Board’s Federal Contaminated Properties and Solid Waste Landfills Inventory, available at: http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dfrp-rbif/cs-sc/. The Government of Canada introduced the Federal Contaminated Sites and Solid Waste Landfills Inventory Policy on July 1, 2000. This policy states that departments and agencies that hold property must establish and maintain a database of their contaminated sites and solid waste landfills, and that this information must be submitted to the Treasury Board Secretariat for inclusion in a central inventory. WHAT IS A CONTAMINATED SITE? According to the definition adopted by the government, a contaminated site is "one at which substances occur at concentrations (1) above (normally occurring) background levels and pose or are likely to pose an immediate or long term hazard to human health or the environment, or (2) exceeding levels specified in policies and regulations." With this in mind, the main qualification for including a site in the inventory is that there is a concentration of a substance in the soil or ground water (usually a petroleum product or a metal) that is higher than expected for that region of Canada. There must also be some evidence that this concentration poses a risk to human health or the environment. This risk is determined in a step-by-step process, beginning with a rough estimate of the contamination based on guidelines agreed to by federal, provincial and territorial environment ministers, all of whom are members of the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment (CCME). The final stage in the procedure process is an Environmental Site Assessment that uses such tools as field sampling and laboratory analysis to determine the type and level of contamination present.   As you read the list below of contaminated sites keep in mind that 4 of them are actually located within in the Private Married Quarters (PMQ'S) section of the base. Petroleum hydrocarbons as well as heavy metal and PAH's are at these locations. Note that there are no coordinates listed for the sites in the PMQ's. It makes one think they do not want people knowing where they are located.   Canadian Forces Base Gagetown http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/dfrp-rbif/cs-sc/property-bien.asp?Language=EN&PN=04089&SearchArchive=Y Property Profile    19 contaminated site(s) Property : parcel number   04089 : 00 Custodian  100   National Defence Type of interest  10   Owned Primary use  41   Military   Street address   Highway 7 Place name   Gagetown, NB Municipality  011   Burton Province/territory  13   New Brunswick Fed. electoral district  003   Fredericton   Land area  110,596.5500 ha   Buildings  1,954   Floor area  740,826 square meters Contaminated Site(s) Site 001   Internal department reference  S319 Location   CFB Gagetown -POL compound- Coordinates Latitude 45.851670  Longitude -68.460000 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment 2   Action likely required Current status 3   Remediated and under risk management Expenditures   2001/2002 $96,719;  2002/2003 $139,499;  2003/2004 no data;  2004/2005 no data;  Action plan   Additional     Site 006   Internal department reference  S312 Location   POL Pt. is located the rear of Bldg K41. The contamination is present in the subsoils and ground water. Coordinates Latitude 45.833890  Longitude -66.450280 Source  1   Global Positioning System (GPS) Contaminants 99   Other Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 007   Internal department reference  S315 Location   In stop butts and small pond where surface waters drain to. Coordinates Latitude 45.797220  Longitude -66.455000 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 02   Heavy metals Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 7   Assessed - no action required Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 008   Internal department reference  S316 Location   Located in the soil and swamp where surface water migrated to. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 009   Internal department reference  S317 Location   In subsoil under the concrete secondary containment berm. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 010   Internal department reference  S318 Location   The leachate contamination is in most part concentrated to the toe of the old waste material and has not migrated from the area. The dump is located on the Shirley Road approximately 7kms from the Range Control Building. Coordinates Latitude 45.838890  Longitude -66.369170 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 02   Heavy metals 04   Toxic organics Classification at time of assessment 3   Action may be required Current status 4   Under risk management Expenditures   2003/2004 no data;  Action plan   Additional     Site 011   Internal department reference  S320 Location   The site is located within the Garrison at K-20. The site is now the main POL Tank Farm for the entire base. Coordinates Latitude 45.831390  Longitude -66.457500 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 3   Remediated and under risk management Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  2004/2005 no data;  Action plan   Additional     Site 013   Internal department reference  S322 Location   The contamination exists where a previous underground waste oil tank had leaked at the west corner of building L10. Coordinates Latitude 45.835830  Longitude -66.436940 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 4   Under risk management Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  2004/2005 no data;  Action plan   Additional     Site 014   Internal department reference  S326 Location   Within the Garrison in the K-Lines. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 015   Internal department reference  S327 Location   In the Garrison in the K-lines Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's 02   Heavy metals Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 7   Assessed - no action required Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 016   Internal department reference  S328 Location   Within the Garrison in the K-lines. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's 02   Heavy metals Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 7   Assessed - no action required Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 017   Internal department reference  S329 Location   This site is an old unit POL Point to the rear of building K-19 and the soil impacts are very isolated to the upper soils and ground water. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's 02   Heavy metals Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 7   Assessed - no action required Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  Action plan   Additional     Site 019   Internal department reference  S332 Location   Within the PMQ area. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 020   Internal department reference  S333 Location   In the PMQ area. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment 2   Action likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 021   Internal department reference  S334 Location   In the PMQ area. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment 3   Action may be required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 022   Internal department reference  S335 Location   In the PMQ area. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment 2   Action likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 023   Internal department reference  S336 Location   Within the Garrison located at Building K-69. Coordinates Latitude 0.000000  Longitude 0.000000 Source  9   Not applicable Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's 02   Heavy metals Classification at time of assessment 2   Action likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   Action plan   Additional     Site 024   Internal department reference  S338 Location   In area where a number of USTs were historically. Site was said to be a old Canex location but this could not be confirmed. Coordinates Latitude 45.846670  Longitude -66.455280 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 01   Petroleum hydrocarbons and PAH's Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 4   Under risk management Expenditures   2001/2002 $2,106;  2002/2003 $1,000;  2004/2005 $4,500;  Action plan   Additional     Site 036   Internal department reference  S10072 Location   Located in the soil to the rear of Building K8 where the units POL pt. Existed Coordinates Latitude 45.833330  Longitude -66.450280 Source  6   General Map (1:1,000,000) Contaminants 99   Other Classification at time of assessment N   Action not likely required Current status 5   Remediation complete Expenditures   2001/2002 $3,000;  Action plan   Additional        WHAT ARE POLYCYCLIC AROMATIC HYDROCARBON (PAHs)? PAHs are a group of approximately 10,000 compounds, a few of which are listed above. Most PAHs in the environment are from incomplete burning of carbon-containing materials like oil, wood, garbage or coal. Many useful products such as mothballs, blacktop, and creosote wood preservatives contain PAHs. They are also found at low concentrations in some special-purpose skin creams and anti-dandruff shampoos that contain coal tars. Automobile exhaust, industrial emissions and smoke from burning wood, charcoal and tobacco contain high levels of PAHs. In general, more PAHs form when materials burn at low temperatures, such as in wood fires or cigarettes. High-temperature furnaces produce fewer PAHs. Fires can form fine PAH particles. They bind to ash particles and can move long distances through the air. Some PAHs can dissolve in water. PAHs can enter groundwater from ash, tar, or creosote that is improperly disposed in landfills. http://www.dhfs.state.wi.us/eh/ChemFS/fs/PAH.htm . Petroleum Hydrocarbons - Overview / Rationale Rationale Petroleum hydrocarbons (PHC) are used in nearly every facet of Canadian life. They provide energy to heat our homes and places of work, fuel our transportation systems, power manufacturing processes and tools, as well as providing a source for the numerous synthetic materials we take for granted in our lives. Used as intended, PHC provide great benefits to society. However, when released to the soil environment as raw feedstocks or refined fuels or lubricants, a number of problems can result. These include fire/explosion hazard, human and environmental toxicity, movement through soil to air or water, odour, and impairment of soil processes such as water retention and nutrient cycling. http://www.ccme.ca/initiatives/standards.html?category_id=6   __________________________________________________________________________ Ken Dobbie and Art Connolly   Aug 3, 2005 I had the true pleasure of meeting with Ken Dobbie and others (will remain anonymous at this time) in Kingston Ontario for a strategy session. We reviewed past and present situations and have implemented a framework for future events. Your ideas that have been offered were discussed and will continue to be discussed. Any ideas offered are greatly appreciated. We reviewed and exchanged ideas until approximatley 11 PM and met again the following morning at 7 AM. I think that all parties involved would call the effort a success. -Art _______________________________________________________________________ From : Ken Young Act fast on Agent Orange file: MLA Last updated Aug 3 2005 10:25 AM ADT CBC News A New Brunswick MLA said the federal government isn't working fast enough on compensation packages for victims of the Agent Orange spray program in the 1950s and 1960s. Oromocto-Gagetown MLA Jody Carr said he's been inundated by phone calls about Agent Orange from victims looking for help. He's said the government is taking too long to decide on how to compensate people. "It's the federal government's moral and ethical responsibility," he said. "The evidence is there on these chemicals, the precedent is there on compensating people and the government must act." Officials with the federal government said on Tuesday they are working hard on the Agent Orange file. Veterans Affairs spokesperson Janice Summerby said the department's inquiry line has been inundated with phone calls about Agent Orange — almost 700 in total. "They began right away once the story was in the news about someone being pensioned for Agent Orange," she said. Despite the high number of calls, she said veterans affairs is still encouraging people to call in if they need information or help. An aid to Fredericton MP Andy Scott said on Wednesday that the government will be announcing it's action plan on Agent Orange next week. Andrew Holland said the government will deal with community outreach issues and the environmental testing among other things. Holland said it's taking so long because it was difficult to co-ordinate all the departments involved, and get everything passed by the treasury department Let's be sure to pay close attention next week. Art   ____________________________________________ From: Jody Carr MLA Aug 3, 2005 Standing Offer Agreement (SOA) Laboratory Analytical Testing Services, CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick   Disclaimer   Reference Number 112535 Source ID FD.CO.ON.6872.C56932 Solicitation Number HQ06108 Published 27/07/2005 Revised   Closing 11/08/2005  02:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Saving Time EDT Associated Components Yes Category Quality Control, Testing, Inspection and Technical Representative Services Tender Type Tender Board Region of Delivery NEW BRUNSWICK Region of Opportunity CANADA WIDE Agreement Type   Solicitation Method Open Estimated Value   Organization Name Defence Construction Canada /Construction de D馥nse Canada Headquarters GSINS H300A LABORATORY, TESTING AND INSPECTION SERVICES, EXCEPT MEDICAL/DENTAL   DEFENCE CONSTRUCTION CANADA (DCC) ? # HQ 061 08 ? Standing Offer Agreement (SOA) Laboratory Analytical Testing Services, CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick   The work includes, but is not necessarily limited to the Laboratory for Analytical Testing Services at CFB Gagetown, New Brunswick.   The firm is to provide Analytical Testing Services on an as required basis for the duration of this Standing Offer Agreement.   The proponent must meet the following minimum requirements: ?       The laboratory shall be an accredited laboratory to analyze samples for the various parameters to be performed under this Standing Offer Agreement. ?       The bidding laboratory and all subcontracting laboratories, shall be accredited according to the International Standards Organization (ISO) Standard 17025 and the accreditation shall be current and in good standing for the duration of the SOA.   Contractors shall submit a proof of meeting the above-mentioned requirements in Envelope A.  DCC will evaluate the technical submissions for compliance against the specifications.   Only the Bidders whose submissions demonstrate compliance with the tender documents, to the sole satisfaction of DCC, will have "Envelope B" containing their Tender Form opened.   Submissions from Bidders who do not satisfy the requirements of the tender documents will be deemed noncompliant and will receive no further consideration.  Envelope B of bidders who are deemed to be noncompliant will be returned unopened.   Bidders shall note that the validity period of fifteen (15) calendar days as specified in the Tender Form, DCL150-S, commences ONLY at the date of opening of envelope "B". Bidder?s who meet the mandatory requirement will be advised of the date of the tender opening.   It is the intention of DCC to award the Standing Offer Agreement to the compliant bidder submitting the lowest valid tender.   THE TENDER FORM, AMENDMENTS AND ALL TENDER DOCUMENTS WILL BE AVAILABLE ELECTRONICALLY ONLY THROUGH MERX DISTRIBUTION.   Bids from bidders whose name does not appear on the official tender document takers list, may be declared invalid.   The estimated value of this SOA is $200,000,00 to provide the required services for a period of two years upon award. If mutually agreed between the contractor and DND, the SOA may be extended for a period of two (2) years for an additional $200,000.00.   The tender closing date is:    August 11, 2005   The tender closing time is:    14:00 hours, local time   Sealed tenders will be received at the following location:   Defence Construction Canada Constitution Square 350 Albert Street, Suite 1900 Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0K3   Fax No.: (613) 998-9547   Please note that the tender results for this project are only available from the DCC Office at (613) 998-9572 for this project.   Bidders can obtain contract award results from the DCC Website at http://www.dcc-cdc.gc.ca/inform/ContractAwards.htm.     Contracting Authority: Serge Langlois Address: Constitution Square 350 Albert Street, Suite 1900 City         : Ottawa Province     : ON Postal Code  : K1A 0K3 Telephone    : 613-998-9572 Fax          : 613-998-9547 E-mail       : serge.langlois@dcc-cdc.gc.ca   ________________________________________________________ From: Jody Carr MLA Aug 3, 2005 Tonight I attended an update meeting on an invite from Col. Ryan Jestin, Commander of Base Gagetown at the Hazen Center in Oromocto, NB. In attendance were Col. Jestin, Base officials Fraser, Base Environmental Officer McLaughlin and Public Affairs Officer Thompson.  Also Oromocto Mayor Fay Tidd, Village of Gagetown Mayor John Tarrel, Local Service District Vice Chair McKnight, Andy Scott MP representative Andrew Holland, and Greg Thompson MP representative Leone Pippard.   Tonight’s meeting was a follow up to Col. Jestin’s last meeting on July 4th, 2005 which was a follow up to the public meeting on June 23, 2005 at Base Gagetown.  Since the July 4th meeting, 4 weeks ago Col. Jestin has been pursuing his commitment of soil, vegetation, biomass and water testing in the training area at Base Gagetown.  This testing is not limited to, but includes, the 1966 and 1967 test plots used for “Agent Orange”.   There are three components to the soil, vegetation, biomass and water testing. 1)     barrel dump sites 2)     soil, vegetation, biomass and water sampling and analysis 3)     2005 herbicide spray program   1)     Barrel dump sites: at the July 4th meeting Col. Jestin invited several veterans to share information with him regarding the possible burial of contaminated barrels at Base Gagetown.  The possible sites were marked on a map that evening.  Since the meeting Base Officials, namely Environment Officer Tom McLaughlin, asked veterans and former civilian workers to accompany him to more precisely identify locations of the possible burial of barrels.  So far, 6-8 possible burial sites have been identified - based on memory.  Base Gagetown has no record of burial sites in addition to the burial sites identified in 1984-85, but are interested in hearing from people who may be aware of these sites and will further investigate them for contaminates.  MGI, of Fredericton, NB has been selected by Base Gagetown to search the possible dump sites for barrels and other metal.  This company will use equipment that will detect metal under the soil.  The equipment will provide the GPS location and a print out of the shape of the metal, if any, below the surface.   The Base Commander is hoping to have the metal search of these initial sites completed by approx. Aug 19th.  Any sites that show metal below the surface will be identified for further testing of soil.  The base will hire a company to excavate the site and perform remediation, if necessary.       2)     Soil, vegetation, biomass and water sampling and analysis: this component will be divided into two sub-sections, a) sampling and b) testing and analysis.  Each sub-section will be contracted out to private companies.  It is possible the sampling will be done by using the current source list with Public Works and the testing will be by an open national tender to an independent contractor.  It is expected the sampling will be completed by September and the testing completed 6-8 weeks following the sampling.  This is very important and complex work, it is necessary to ensure the proper parameters are in place.  We are told this has been completed by the Director General of Environment with representation by Base Gagetown and the tender will remain flexible to allow for further sampling and testing of other sites if new information from the public shows further testing is needed.   a.      Sampling: Base officials have been searching the records they have regarding the entire chemical spray program dated back to 1953 to 2005.  They are in the process of compiling a document that will include the chemicals used, the manufacturers, the mixture, the application rates, the contractors hired and the specific locations on base sprayed year by year.  This information will be overlaid on a map.  This information, plus that of the June 23 public meeting and the subsequent meetings with Veterans and input from civilians will be used by the private contractor to determine where to take samples in the training area.  In addition, samples will be taken from the 1966 and 1967 test plots, all of the training area artesian wells and any dump sites that have been found.   b.      Testing and analysis: Testing for dioxin and other chemicals is very complex.  There are very few laboratories in Canada with this capability to do the testing that needs to be completed.  The results of the testing will be released to the public by the company.  The testing will be beneficial in either providing locations that need remediation or hopefully the confidence to current troops and their families that the training area is safe for today and well into the future.   3)     2005 Herbicide Spray Program: The spray program decreases growth of trees and is designed to limit forest fires, both controlled and uncontrolled. The herbicide used is essentially the product called “round-up” available at Canadian Tire.                                                                i.      The 4 sites on the training grounds to be sprayed this summer are very small plots.                                                              ii.      They are located in the “impact training area” (possible unexploded ammunition, etc).                                                           iii.      These sites are not accessible by people or machines.  The entire “impact training area” will be closed during the spraying.                                                             iv.      The spraying will be by fixed wing aircrafts and contracted out, yet to be awarded.                                                               v.      It will take place during two days in the last two weeks of August.                                                             vi.      The spraying will be video taped and GPS recorded.                                                           vii.      There will be strict meteorological controls                                                          viii.      There will be pre and post water and soil sampling and testing to ensure only the intended areas are sprayed   I can’t say enough how appreciative I am to Base Commander Col. Ryan Jestin for inviting this small group to update us on the progress from his perspective.  How refreshing!  He stands out in this issue as one who has shown great leadership and support to his troops, to veterans, and to civilians and neighbours.  Way to go!   In addition to the meeting with Col. Jestin tonight the following are additional updates:   -          Semra Yüksel is an award-winning Fredericton-based documentary filmmaker. She is in the process of collecting information from many sources to produce a documentary film about the use of Agent Orange and chemical herbicides at Base Gagetown and its effect, if any, on human beings and the environment.  If anyone is interested in contacting Semra with information you would like to share she would like to hear from you.  Her email address is: acrolect@nbnet.nb.ca -          Still no details from the Elected Federal Government on how they will respond to the fall out from chemical exposure at Base Gagetown since 1956.  In my view, it is important that a true independent process be established that will oversee and coordinate the three aspects of this issue to ensure the Federal Government meets its moral and ethical obligation with open, transparent and honest answers, compensation and next steps.  The three aspects as I see it are: §         Compensation Review – Does the government really want to hear from people who know about what happened regarding the chemical spray program since 1956?  What does the Federal Government really know? How does the Federal Government best compensate all those directly and inadvertently exposed?  Is compensation based on exposure, diagnosis, and dosage or should it be presumptive? §         Environmental Sampling and Testing (great progress to date) §         Community Health Assessment – is there a higher incidence of cancer and other illness of people living in the communities directly bordering Base Gagetown?  What about the people who have moved away and their families?  When the results come back, then what? Should we then look for better preventative health solutions and early screening?   For more information stay tuned to: www.jodycarr.ca www.agentorangealert.com http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1685 _________________________________________________   From: Ken Dobbie July 31, 2005   The Vietnam Red Cross is involved in a huge humanitarian effort to assist the population of Vietnam who have been terribly poisoned by over 20 million gallons of Agent Orange. They list the following diseases and disorders. Their list is much more extensive than the US Government admits to, I believe the Vietnam Red Cross over the Americans. This list shows there are many more diseases and disorders than the U.S. government currently recognizes.    The list is as follows: Soft Tissue Sarcoma, Non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, Hodgkin's Disease, Chloracne, Respiratory Cancers (Cancers Of The Lungs, Larynx, Trachea & Bronchus), Prostate Cancer, Multiple Myeloma, Peripheral Neuropathy (acute or sub acute), Spina Bifida, Porphyria Cutanea Tarda (Liver Dysfunction), Increased Rate Of Primary Liver Cancer,  Oropharynx Cancer (Back Of The Mouth Connecting The Oral Cavity With The Nasal Cavities & Larynx & Esophagus), Hepatitis, Liver Cirrhosis, Immune-deficiency: Increased Rates Of Infectious Diseases, Intestinal Diseases: Gastric Ulcers, Gastroduodenitis ( Inflammation of the stomach and duodenum, one of the most frequent causes of jaundice), Arteriolosclerosis, Hypertension, Cerebral Circulation Disorders, Choriocarcinoma (Cancer Of The Placenta), Anencephalia (Defect In Brain Development Resulting In Small/Missing Brain Hemispheres), Cerebral Palsy, Higher Rates Of Infant Mortality, Microcephalia (Failure Of Brain Growth During Pregnancy And Infancy), Hydrocephalia (Restriction Of Circulation Of Cerebrospinal Fluid Affecting The Brain With Pressure Resulting In Mental Deficiency), Miscarriages, Stillbirths, Premature Births, Hyditiform Mole (Hardened Placenta Left From A Failed Pregnancy), Contaminated Breast Milk, Dermatitis, Loss Of Appetite, Insomnia, Weight Loss, Fatigue, Headache, Impaired Vision & Hearing _________________________________________________________________________ From: Marc Maclean July 30, 2005 Good day Art, I came across this link after doing some reading on “cancer clusters”. This link is obviously the contact info for a registry where cancers in the province are reported. Just maybe they’d have some applicable info or stats. It would be of no use to soldiers who are so transient, but for the locals who have been there all the time it might be more usefull. http://www.naaccr.org/members/central%20Cancer%20Registries-us.cfm?registry=New%20Brunswick&type=0 Marc Great find Marc. Thank you! Art ________________________________________________________________________ From: Carol Lorac July 30, 2005 Dear Art; I was born in Nova Scotia.  My dad was in the Korean War therefore he was a vetran.  How would one know that it would be his own country that killed him and not the war? I am one of five children. I was the middle child. My dad was in the army from 51 to 69. We lived in Chillwack B.C. until I was five.  My father went to Cyrprus forsix months, so we went to live with my grandfather forthat time.  In 1958 he was posted to Base Gagetown N.B. where we lived until 1969. I lived on Douglas Drive. Half the PMQ's were not even built then.  I remember going out picking berries, going to Shirley Road for picnics, going to the base to the theater, getting a pass to the pool, going to the arena, shoveling the snow and making your own rink and snow sculpures.  I remember the Juinior High I went to wasn't built when we first lived there.  I remember getting the warnings about Stephen Truscott.  My brother was a recurit on the base and I remember all the buddies he brought home. I remember my brother doing infra red and infra blue.  I remember the women in the neighbourhood buying apples on Halloween and making candy apples and handing them out for trick or treat. My dad and my brother were avid hunters and used to go deer hunting in the fall every year and we would eat the meat. I remember going snaring rabbits with my cousin and skinning the rabbits and eating them.  He lived in the new PMQs , he passed away from Cancer in his early forties. It may seem like I am rambling but if I put my whole story out there maybe it will jog someones memory and they will say hey I went through that too. It was not hard to get into the area where they sprayed agent orange, just because the wives and girlfriends were not suppose to be there I knew of many tha snuck out there. I remember them spraying for mosquitoes and all the kids in the neighbour hood running through it . We were never told it could be harmful and everyone was doing it. I remember having to go through woods to get to school and dances.  I remember when the PPCLI and the Brirish came to base Gagetown for training. Some of the people the farmers and their families were our friends and we would go and visit them. At present my father has passed , my cousin has passed, a friend who didn't live on the base has passed, a lot of my friends parents have passed and they wer all under 60. You brought back many wonderful memories for me Carol. I too remember the candy apples, shovelling and playing in snow, making rinks, walking thru the woods to get to school, getting a pass to the pool (they were triangular and our Mom's would sew them on our swimsuits). It was a wonderful place and time to grow up, It all seemed so innocent. The reason it seemed so innocent is that we were innocent. Innocent children. If we had only known. -Art __________________________________________________________________________ July 29, 2005 FROM: ANONYMOUS Hi Guys;     I am sitting wrestling with emotions tonight in these wee hours of the morning. In the time spent investigating, trying to get information on Camp Gagetown’s   spraying of Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White, I expected to run into obstacles. I knew that it would be no small task. My main objective is to uncover the facts. I need the medical ramifications and consequences of the spraying of these chemicals for my children. I want to know if indeed, they were affected by this.     What I was not expecting and quite frankly was blind sided by, was the strong feelings of other armed forces personnel and family members that believe any of these symptoms we are all having, could happen to anyone anywhere. I should not be questioning the Military’s actions. That this would in some way reflect on my deceased father’s fine reputation. They do not say outright that I should discontinue my search for answers, but it is a foregone conclusion. I know it is the lifestyle of the soldier and that of his/her families but I just wasn’t expecting it at all.    I think that it makes it much harder for me and all of you in the long run. Now, I feel even more lost and isolated than I did before I found out about what it was they sprayed while we grew up there. More importantly, the feeling of “Why Me” and “Why my children”. If it weren’t for bad luck I would have no luck at all.   I will persevere. I need to know for sure, no matter what anyone thinks. I have to, for the sake of my children. We are all entitled to our opinion, and mine is to get the information, then decide. It is sad state of affairs though. I thought the Agent Orange was the only battle. L _______________________________________________________________________ July 29, 2005 Welcome Back Shaw.ca Customers!!!! It appears that Shaw.ca clients were inconvenienced by not being able to connect to the site. I have not heard what happened but I am certainly glad to see that the situation has been corrected and we are complete again. -Art _______________________________________________________________________ July 28, 2005 Listen to Louise Elliott's report on the CBC's July 23rd edition of The House   http://www.cbc.ca/thehouse/media/05-07-23-thehouse.ram ______________________________________________________________________ July 28, 2005 Can We Talk? .... Since the release of the story of the defoliant sprayings in Gagetown I have been in a state of amazement. When I first "went live" with the website on June 9, 2005 I had no idea of the response that the site would receive. Approximately 7 weeks later there have been over 250,000 "hits" at the website and hundreds of emails. The stories and contributions that have been submitted are what make this site a success. We have created a website and most importantly we have created a network. A network of veterans, dependents, civilians and families as well as those who care, all seeking the truth and acknowledgement from a government in denial. We have created a network of friends. I am amazed by the stories we share. As difficult as they are to share and read they are needed. Needed by those who are sick, needed by those who have lost loved ones and needed by all who demand the truth. We need to write and read the stories to know that we are not alone. We need to write and read the stories to show those who cannot or will not comprehend what has happened. We need to tell the world. I am amazed by the residual suffering or the ripple effect. The suffering of people not knowing why something happened. The suffering of the questions asked. "Why is this happening to me?" "What has my family done to deserve this?" "Why has God taken my loved one?" The suffering of alcoholism and addictions were so common. Addictions that numbed the pain. I am amazed by the Department of National Defence. They choose to only discuss defoliant spraying that happened in 1966 and 1967. I cannot comprehend why that is. The sprayings happened form 1956 to 1984 according to DND documents. Since they have not mentioned the other 26 years I am going to take that as a "DENY DENY DENY" tactic. Not to be confused with a "LETS SAY NOTHING AND HOPE IT GOES AWAY" tactic. I am amazed by a government that forms a parliamentary committee to study the defoliant sprayings that happened in 1966 and 1967. Again the sprayings happened from 1956 to 1984 according to DND documents. Hmmm? Sound familiar? I suspect they are using the same "DENY DENY DENY" or 'LETS SAY NOTHING AND HOPE IT GOES AWAY" tactic as the Department of National Defence. I am amazed by people that have NOT joined the class action suit. I have spoken with Casey Churko with The Merchant Law Group. Casey has informed me that we have hundreds of people more than required to launch the class action suit. I have to admit I am disappointed. I want to hear that we have thousands of people more than needed. Everyone who was affected needs to join that class action suit. When the petition goes to the court the court needs to see that this is not a small group. There must have been tens of thousands of people who were in Gagetown during the periods 1956 - 1984. This class action suit is not just for our veterans. It is for all who have suffered.  The class action suit is for Veterans, civilains and their faimilies. It  is imperative that the government know that it is dealing with a force. A force that is not going away. A force that insists on accountability and resolution. A force that strong in numbers and resolve. A very dear friend quoted something to me that is credited to Edmund Burke. She told me “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”. She explained that by people doing nothing evil is allowed to happen. We all need to step up and do something in order to not let evil triumph. Please .... amaze me one more time.   Art Connolly http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/17/index.htm   _________________________________________________________________________ July 28, 2005 Name: Sharyn Last Name: Selskey City: Toronto Province: Ontario E-mail Address: selshar@selskey.com Comments: These men should not be dying prematurely! The government of Canada should be giving these Vets everything they need to live full lives and should care for their families after the fact. The government spends lots of money foolishly as it is, the Vets and their families should be a priority!!! I like the way you think Sharyn Art :) _______________________________________________________________________ July 27, 2005 From: Ken Young   Gagetown test may take until fall! http://www.cbc.ca/nb/  Thanks Ken :) Art ___________________________________________________________________________ July 28, 2005 First Name: Danah Last Name: Woodworth City: Middleton Province: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: danahwoodworth@hotmail.com Comments: Oh wow Marc, I am so sorry to hear that you have this and well had this and were treated so poorly....you brought up a lot of intersting information, because a lot of what you talked about....affected my dad. His brain cancer could not be explained either... and i too have just been diagnosed with arthritis. And i am an active 32 young mother. On top of all my other medical concerns, my headaches are getting worse by the day. To the point that I layed in bed this morning with my room darkened and in tears because even my hair was hurting my head. So after a trip to the hospital when my husband came home from work, they could not explain to me...yet again....why i am having such horrific headaches. Your message was very insightful, and know that you are not alone. Keep your head up Sweetie, hopefully soon there will be the answers we are all searching for! ________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Marc Last Name: MacLean City: Edmonton Province: Alberta E-mail Address: marcmaclean@shaw.ca Comments: Hello Folks, I’ve been reading along and have been reserving comment until I gathered as many facts and watched what developed further. I’m impressed Ken and Art with research and unselfish efforts. I’m sorry for your desperate situations. I’d also like to express my condolences for the Skipton family. I used to go to school with Sue at West Kings. What I’ll cover in this post is my experiences with CFB Gagetown, the Canadian forces medical system, and Canada’s Veteran Affairs. I’ll outline how my health deteriorated over the years and how these 3 entities have abandoned me outright although I served them well. It was just after high school when I arrived at CFB Gagetown in March of 1980 as an RCR. I spent the next 6.5 years in the swamps of Gagetown training area until Jul 1986. I was a very healthy 19 year old who had been athletic all my life so far, and was about to become even much more athletic. Until 2000, in a typical week I cycled 100km’s, did a couple trail hikes, rollerbladed to and from work, golfed 3-4 rounds, privately flew an airplane. All this on top of PT parade “when there was one”. I looked after myself because I took my responsibilities to my uniform seriously. Those were the days when being out of shape and obese would get you a discharge. I’m not saying this was just. It was just the way it was. Today I sit all day in a lazy boy chair trying not to aggravate the multitude of symptoms and illness’ plaguing me today. 2 summers ago I had been diagnosed with neuroendocrine cancer located on the uncinate process of my pancreas. There is no known cause so it can’t be blamed on cigarette smoking as the VA suggests, even though literature clearly shows there is no known cause for this cancer. This type of cancer is very rare and only 2500 case are discovered in the US each year. I’ve also been diagnosed with some emotional/mental illness such as depression and a stress disorder. The cancer is malignant and I follow up with ct scans each 6 months. I had been carrying the tumors for years according to the surgeon. The tumors were hormone producing, sending my hormonal system into chaos. The surgery for the tumors on my pancreas was while I was still serving but had remusted to the airforce “2003”. It was bungled in that a bleeder clip was left behind and possibly more FOD. After loosing 30 lbs in 6 days, and 10 days after the surgery, I had a pulmonary embolism that landed me back at the hospital.. While there a very large life threatening cyst was discovered on my liver. It was drained and I continue to have trouble with my liver function being low. By the very uncomfortable feeling in my right side I’d say the liver is enlarged/bloated. The surgeon explained it as “something picked up off the table. I bleed rectally now which never was before. I digest very poorly and have much nausea often. About 98-99 I began to develop neuropathy in my finger tips. About the same time I was diagnosed with very early arthritis in my knees. The rest of my joints particularly my feet, hands, back, and hips have followed suit in the last couple years. As soon as I hit Gagetown I began to have migraine headaches very badly and very often. They were poorly controlled with heavy meds. I had terrible abdominal issues such as chronic diarrhea, cramps, and acid reflux. Around 82/83 I had a spell of night sweats that followed with chronicly aching bones and joints. I had acne while I served in Gagetown and my testicals ached and were sensitive to touch. Make no mistake, as bad as I felt all these years. I pulled my weight and finished every exercise I ever started. I never ever once fell by the wayside. I point this out to demonstrate I was not hypochondriac nor a malingerer. I made infantry section commander in 2 years back in 82, and just to finish an Infantry Section Commaders course back then was a feat. 48 of us started the first day, and only 13 graduated. I point these things out to show again, I was no slouch. I enjoyed my career and was happy to serve without question in those days. I was released from the CF against my will Feb 04. The Surgeon and CF medical system knew full well the surgery had been bungled and I would require further treatment. Not much of a case of continued care, as promised by CF orders. I had no family doctor lined up and so was told by Ottawa to use outpatients when I called to complain of a lack of continuity in my care. How in the world could an emergency room doctor know my full history to consider proper diagnosis? Everybody knows that if you’re lucky you’ll get 15 minutes with a doctor. The CF medical system was under pressure from CF leadership to reduce the SPHL list. I receive no assistance and just a bureaucratic nightmare facing Blue Cross insurance adjusters representing the VA. Why wouldn’t the CF medical system try at all to explain my cancer or do any sort of investigation into possible chemical poisoning? I finished my career as an aviation tech and was sometimes chronically exposed to many chemicals. Known to be dangerous chemicals, but no investigation at all. They knew I was a soldier in Gagetown. No continued medical care, no VA support, and no family doctor. I was able to find a doctor on my own who would prove to be completely inadequate for such a complicated case. 18 months I spent with this doctor. I visited her about 6 times. She never once physically examined me. I’ve been made to feel that I am just searching for a pension, all along the way. This is insane to think that I’d serve as well as I did for such a large and insured company just to be thrown out like a used up battery. The VA has never given me the benefit of the doubt, they’d just prefer the cancer gets me and they’d have less to pay my family who probably wouldn’t even pursue them for a claim. They know, and it’s a game of attrition. There hasn’t been much response because there’s no one hardly left. The dilemma in gaining any sort of accountability is entirely about avoiding fiscal responsibility such as class action suits and pensions to veterans. The VA is privatized for the most part and is just an insurance company more fitting of an era of privatization of government services. I don’t believe for a minute anyone will come clean on this and tell the whole truth resulting in proper investigation and possible proper compensation if entitled. I’m sure veterans will have to jump through hoops to get help, as it’s always been, and civilians will get lost in a long drawn out affair of denial and lying by chemical company reps and our government who is primarily concerned with protecting shareholders and big business. Our government shows it’s distaste for the men and women of our CF flagrantly when it appropriates billions of dollars saved up by generations of serviceman and women in their pension fund “bill C78”. Crooks!! The new Ombudsman appointment of Mr. Cote will prove to have a negative effect on the office and it’s mandate. The VA has supposedly been revamped, but I’d say that they just made the criteria more difficult and discriminatory. Wow!!, and this is the year of the veteran. I haven’t got the whole picture yet, but, It’s clear the VA is not at all a “new and improved” version of the past. Soldiers are having to make their own investigation while medical professionals remain silent and complicit. Soldiers are being segregated according to their service, whether actual wartime xp or UN duty or peacetime service. Such categories are discriminatory and should be immediately discarded as policy. I have seen much sacrifice by career peacetime soldiers. I’ve seen men injured during live fire excercises. I’ve seen them die in MVAs during convoys. I’ve lost a pile of friends along the way because the work is dangerous and full of hazard whether the country is at peace or war. I can’t count on one hand the close calls I’ve had that don’t at all represent the typical dangers a civilian would face. We all agreed to serve and die if called upon. The commitment was no less amongst those that didn’t get to carry out their mission overseas. The sacrifices in ou! r personal lives and within our family lives was no less for a career peacetime solder than one who went to Bosnia, for example. It’s just not the individual’s choice how he will serve in these regards. I feel Cold War soldiers deserve no less consideration by the VA when it comes to a claim for disability. I just can’t imagine why I’d be treated so differently than the generations of my family that have served before me. I’ve seen how they were treated by the VA and I can tell you the criteria has changed and has become a mine field of hurdles to gain compensation for injuries due to service during anything but wartime. The benefit of the doubt has gone by the wayside. If there are any airman out there who are familiar with a red alert in Baden, and remember having to go underground into what we called the “subs” for NBC protection. Try to ask yourself when you went in the sub did anyone really know whether it was real or just an exercise. I didn’t. Who knew whether when you came out of the sub if your family would still be there or would there be a nuclear wasteland to come up too. How is this “Cold War” service different and less valid than patrolling Bosnia? How is it that a soldier who is accidently blown up in the Ghan and a soldier who bites it on a peacetime mission such as a live fire, or a Gagetown career soldier exposed to herbacides are deserving of such segregation from our VA? So, in conclusion; I served honorably and with distinction, both in peacetime and also as a UN peacekeeper in Cyprus. I fell ill gradually over the years for reasons unknown and the professionals responsible have never lived up to their obligations to me. I was released without any investigation into my illness’, without any continuing care, without a family doctor, and no VA support whatsoever. I was also forced from my PMQ after release while I was still very sick. What I have received was negative attitude towards my type of service, claw backs on my pensions, and bleak future for a lack of medical treatment and support from the VA. I’ll always be a little less proud of my service for this sort of flagrant disregard for my contribution and wellbeing. I have a letter that was written to my parents by the Cornwallis Base Commander when I signed up; It was a letter to reassure my parents that I would be cared for as far as my health and wellbeing. All our parents received such a letter in those days. It was a promise never kept, and has turned out to be nothing but a lie. PS. I’m only 44 years old. The average age for my cancer is 55-65 years. Pro Patria Marc Your story is disturbing but your thoughts are very insightful Marc... Thank you for sharing -Art __________________________________________________________________________ Click to Enlarge Click to Enlarge July 25, 2005 These are the actual DND documents obtained through the Freedom of Information act from DND itself. These are the numbers. Please note that TORDON 101 is Agent White. No wonder everyone is sick. Thanks Ken!! Art ____________________________________________________________________________ July 25, 2005 First Name: david Last Name: scragg City: oakville Province: ontario E-mail Address: Comments: absolutely disgusting to think of what our own government has done to us and now ignore the plight of veterans and their families - typical crap from our elected reps who are only veterans of politics not real life.   Amen David Amen -Art ___________________________________________________________________________ July 25, 2005 Only 5 more months until Christmas kids!!!!  LOL -Art :) _______________________________________________ From: Ken Dobbie July 24, 2005 I have attached a rather surreal and evocative photo. It is the geneis of all that we are going through today. It is a picture of the meeting held at the Petersville Community Hall, the night of August 18, 1952 in which the Government official is telling all the people that their community, their homes and lands are about to be expropriated destroying their entire way of life in order to build CFB Gagetown.   Today, Petersville is a large helipad and tank headquarters in the middle of the base. If you drive down Highway 7 from Oromocto to St. John, you go right through the middle of it. It has changed dramatically over the years. But it was also the scene of a LOT of the spraying.   Thought you would like to see it.   Thank you Ken....gives me goosebumps....if they only had known Art     ________________________________________________   Take a look at the interview with Ken Dobbie in today's Kingston Whig-Standard!   http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/4/index.htm    Art ___________________________________________ From: d.mcguire6880@rogers.com Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 09:21 AM To: webmaster@agentorangealert.com Subject: Former RCR Hello Art:  I saw the TV reports several weeks ago on the subject matter and was surprised to see some men from the Gagetown area speaking on TV. One of them, I believe was my former 'H' Coy Section Commander during my 2 RCR days from 1972 to Jul 1978. His name is Donnie (perhaps Don Farnell) former RCR also-Infantryman. When I was a young 21 yr old lad, Don was the only leader I had back in those days, to keep a guy straight and out of MP cells. Taught me allot and I often think of those yrs on exercise in the training area, UN tours to Cyprus, etc..  I was just wondering if you might have him in your email address book. Sorry to read about your dad. I can't understand why the Fed Gov't hides when these issues come up. DND has consistently made it a tremendous mountain to climb for the vet's trying to get some help for old Infantry injuries, etc..   We had many exercises in the Gagetown trng area where we drank from the streams, filled our water bottles. I will keep an eye on the upcoming media stories ref the ongoing study I hear is being done to determine if any of the chemical stuff is still in the ground. Great Website Your Dad would be quite proud of you being a Captain of Change. Best Regards ~ D.J.(Doug) McGuire Thank You Doug!! -Art _________________________________________________________________________ July 20, 2005   Please check the Merchant Law Group website for more information regarding the Class Action Suit.   http://www.merchantlaw.com/details.pdf     __________________________________________   July 20, 2005   Please check out Gary King's new agent orange website!!!   http://koreanvet.com/orange _________________________________________________________________ From: Corrinne Gritten July 20, 2005 My father was at Gagetown from approximately 1969 to 1971. He was airlifted out of a field training session with cardiac problems. Diabetes and circulatory problems quickly followed. He died of complications of diabetes and cardiac failure in 2002 at the age of 68. His last ten years permitted no enjoyment as his decline was greatly debilitating. His health seemed inappropriate. The recent news of chemical use in Gagetown has given we, the family, cause to question and investigate how this may have impacted his health. Your site is imformative. Thank you for sharing your story. CJ __________________________________________________________________   July 20, 2005   Geesh, in one breath, Mr. Gervais says "...I simply wanted to prevent the public from accessing my clients directly on this issue..." and the next, "my client intends to speak to this issue publicly..." So he can access the public but we can't access him, right? In other words, it will be a one-way dialogue. Go figure.    Marilynn Thats a hellluva an observation Marilynn!!! Art _____________________________________________________________________   ----- Original Message ----- From: Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca To: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: RE: Hexachlorobenzene sediment testing Mr. Dobbie:  I hear you and I am sorry for your predicament.   My comment was not intended to cause you grief/anxiety.  I simply wanted to prevent the public from accessing my clients directly on this issue given the legal proceedings that have been filed.  As you may know, whenever a court action is begun, all communications between the parties must occur through their respective counsel.  This is why I asked you to forward a copy of my previous e-mail to Mr. Merchant (also this one, if you please).   As for what tests will be carried out this summer, my client intends to speak to this issue publicly in the near future.    -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Dobbie [mailto:kdobbie2@cogeco.ca] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:07 AM To: Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca Cc: Louise Elliott; webmaster@agentorangealert.com; Ian Elliot; Ken Young; Marilynn; Sean McKibbon Subject: Hexachlorobenzene sediment testing Mr. Gervais: I have been thinking about what you said to me in your email and I quote:    " whether DND will be testing the sediments of certain lakes and rivers for the presence of hexachlorinebenzene this summer.  As you can appreciate, this is a matter that my client does not need to share with you." Actually, it is a matter that your client does need to share, especially with all those military and civilian personnel who were poisoned by Hexachlorobenzene in the spraying of 1.3 million liters of toxic defoliants over a period of 28 years. And since I was one of those who were poisoned by the military spraying and I am dying from it, I beleive that it gives me the right to ask Colonel Jestin. My question for Colonel Jestin was: Are the sediments of specific rivers and lakes going to be tested for Hexachlorobenzene? It is after all a simple question. It is not anything to do with a lawsuit. It is about finding the truth. However, if you wish to bury it in legal issues, then that is your right, although I would question your morality about doing so, but I would hope that given the grave situation in CFB Gagetown in terms of defining it's toxicity or non-toxicity that you would be more open to the truth rather than trying to shut me down from accessing a person who asked me, as part of the audience, for help. Yes, Mr. Gervais, I was part of the audience at the CFB Gagetown briefing on June 23 and I was one of those who addressed the panel. And I am one of those who is dying from the chemicals. In case you are unaware, Hexachlorobenzene was the inert agent in Picloram which was a chemical contained in TORDON 101, which the Americans called Agent White. This was sprayed for TWENTY years on Base Gagetown, thus I believe that this information is vital and is a matter that your client definitely needs to share, especially with the general public. I have been contacted last night both by ABC News from New York and also the BBC. Am I to tell them that your organization is denying information concerning Hexachlorobenzene? I only wish to set the record straight before I give them the interviews that they have requested. I have always been truthful in any of my dealings with anyone concerning this issue, unlike the government's present position. However, having said that, I do wish to remain as impartial as I can in this issue. I do want the public to know the truth and by giving interviews, as I have in the past weeks, it has come to my realization that I shoulder a tremendous responsibility to tell the truth in every interview that I give. And I don't take that lightly. I think despite my being involved in a class action lawsuit against the government, that the information being asked is so vitally important for disclosure to the public that it precludes my involvement in any action against the government because as Colonel Jestin himself said, that he was open to suggestions or information from anyone who had information about the testing or the spraying. I understand your position as legal cousel, but sometimes Mr. Gervais, there are issues that transcend  moral and legal obligations and I believe that this is one of those times.  Kenneth Dobbie __________________________________________________________________ From: David MacDonald   July 20, 2005    I sent off e-mails to the Federal Agent Orange Committee and  received an acknowledge but expect NOTHING from the Federal Government. This is`only a "Make` Work Exercise" for summer employment.  I would like to know `if there is any person or group contemplation legal action to gain cpmpensation. D~ MacDonald   Yes there is a class action suit in progress ...check out our Class Action Suit page.   http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/17/index.htm   Art :) ________________________________________________________________________ From: Gary Purdy   July 20, 2005   I  was a corporal in June 66 with the Royal Canadian Electrical Mechanical Engineers posted to the Service Batallion. I was a vehicle mechanic and repaired in the field or recovered the vehicles for repair in the shop. I recall being out one time picking up a cutter of sorts that I had to bring back to Base. I was alone with a tracktor and trailer and used a bulldozer to load it onto the trailer. I recall the area I was in seemed like it was covered with tree branches and small pieces of wood with no bark on it. Reminded me of bleached bones! I was a jock and played all kinds of sports in the military but for some unknown reason I developed a heart condition known as atrio Fibulation adn cardiomyopothy (sp). Part of the heart muscle died but I have been able to maintain it through medication so that I can get around on level ground and still drive. It started going bad in 77 that I recall but never got documented very good until I got out in 93. I am waiting to hear from Vac or Dva and some kind of form to fill out. Expect I will go the route of many people that were there during that time. I spent from 63 to 73 there and think they did more than one summer of spraying. We drank the water, ate berries and cleaned our mess tins in the brooks out there in the area. God knows what else they did to the training area. Gary Purdy _________________________________________________________________________ From Meg Sears Sent to parliamentary committee studying sprayings July 19, 2005 I am interested in the upcoming investigation of contamination on and surrounding CFB Gagetown, looking for persistent pollutants as a result of 28 years of herbicide spraying by Canadians, as well as two years of spraying on behalf of the US military. The Gagetown investigations should be according to the best knowledge available, setting a high standard for environmental and health research, for polluted landscapes and populations. There unfortunately is the potential for considerable money to be spent looking for the wrong chemicals in the wrong places, and to find nothing. Of course, if nothing was found there would be no reason to assist the legions of ill veterans and their families, as well as the neighbours of CFB Gagetown. Persistent pollutants such as dioxins, furans, chlorinated benzene, and arsenic, some of the contaminants or ingredients of herbicides used at Gagetown, remain in the soil, and are collected in oils and fats of the area biota. However, according to a recent newspaper article in the Daily Gleaner, "Department of National Defence spokesperson Tina Crouse said it's still early in the planning process and she expects more information will be available by the end of the summer. "We will be initiating a soil, vegetation, air and water sampling program this summer," she said. "We're currently working on the requirements for that program and we will use the competitive process to select a contractor to do that work."" I have to ask, why will the pollutants will not be measured where you expect to find them – in the wildlife, and in the fat tissue (or blood samples) of people with severe health problems? Stream sediments should be analysed, too. Cores can sometimes give a history of contamination. There is also the concern that all potential pollutants must be assessed. A complete array of dioxin-like substances should be analysed, because 2,4-D, diquat and paraquat may be highly contaminated with substances other than 2,3,7,8-TCDD. It is very important that this Request for Proposal be comprehensive, so that the truth is uncovered, rather than buried. By way of introduction, I do not have a personal interest in this matter, but have been in touch with some who do. I am trained in chemical engineering and applied chemistry, and biochemical engineering. I have had a long-standing interest in pesticides and the environment. I am presently a writer, preparing medical journal articles for Ottawa medical researchers. If I can be of any assistance to you in this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, Meg Sears (MEng, PhD) _______________________________________________________________________ From: Ken Dobbie July 19, 2005 Doing some research I came across this newest list from the Veteran's Affairs of the US...   The following diseases are those officially recognized by VA as related to herbicide exposure. To win benefits, VA law and regulations also require that some of these conditions appear (or “become manifest”) within a deadline that began to run the day you left Vietnam. If there is a deadline, it is listed in brackets after the name of the disease. If your condition is not listed below, ask your doctor whether what you have is similar to any of these. There may be room to argue that your condition is the same as one of these. WARNING: This list may change. For more information, please refer to the VA web site on Agent Orange (http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/benefits/Herbicide/AOno3.htm) Prostate cancer Peripheral neuropathy (acute and sub-acute) Diabetes Type II Spina Bifida in children of Vietnam Veterans Chloracne [one year] Non-Hodgkin’s Lymphoma, including any diagnosis of a lymphoma [except Hodgkin’s lymphoma], mycosis fungoides, and old terms such as lymphosarcoma, reticulum cell sarcoma and Kaposi's sarcoma Porphyria cutanea tarda [one year] Respiratory cancers, including cancer of the lung bronchus larynx trachea Multiple myeloma Hodgkin’s disease Soft Tissue Sarcomas, including: Adult fibrosarcoma Dermatofibrosarcoma protuberans Malignant fibrous histiocytoma Liposarcoma Leiomyosarcoma Epithelioid leiomyosarcoma (malignant leiomyoblastoma) Rhabdomyosarcoma Ectomesenchymoma Angiosarcoma (hemangiosarcoma and lymphangiosarcoma) Proliferating (systemic) angioendo- theliomatosis Malignant glomus tumor Malignant hemangiopericytoma Synovial sarcoma (malignant synovioma) Malignant giant cell tumor of tendon sheath Malignant schwannoma, including malignant schwannoma with rhabdomyoblastic differentiation (malignant Triton tumor), glandular and epithelioid malignant schwannomas Malignant mesenchymoma Malignant granular cell tumor Alveolar soft part sarcoma Epithelioid sarcoma Clear cell sarcoma of tendons and aponeuroses Extraskeletal Ewing’s sarcoma Congenital and infantile fibrosarcoma Malignant ganglioneuroma Under the VA rule, soft tissue sarcoma does not include osteosarcoma, chondrosarcoma, Kaposi’s sarcoma, or mesothelioma. _______________________________________________________________ From: Mike Christie July 19, 2005 Photos show pain caused by dioxin (19-07-2005) Former Vice President Nguyen Thi Binh (fourth, right), VNA general director Le Quoc Trung (third, right), and event sponsors posed for a photo with AO victims yesterday. — VNA/VNS Photo Tung Lam   HA NOI — Seventy photographs showing the damage done to successive generations of Vietnamese by the spraying of their country with defoliants such as Agent Orange/Dioxin during the American War are now on display in Ha Noi. The poignant photographs, taken throughout the country by Viet Nam News Agency photographers, also depict the grit and determination of the victims and their families to overcome their adversity. The five-day exhibition, titled The Pain of Agent Orange/Dioxin, has been organised by the VNA and as its deputy director, Nguyen Duy Cuong, explained while opening it: "In showing their very moving images, the photographers do not intend to widen the painful legacy of the war." Instead, "Their pictures are a call for more love and support from the community. "They embody a burning desire to see miracles for the victims who struggle so hard, sometimes hopelessly, day by day." Cuong said the almost 80 million litres of defoliant that American servicemen and their allies sprayed on Viet Nam had disabled and disfigured almost 3 million people directly exposed to the chemicals. Thousands had died and thousands knew their days were numbered because of the consequential afflictions. Former Viet Nam Vice President Nguyen Thi Binh, who chairs Viet Nam Council for Children, Viet Nam Association for Dioxin-Agent Orange Victims Vice Chairman Nguyen Trong Nhan and child victims of Agent Orange attended the opening. So did Viet Nam News Agency’s general director, Le Quoc Trung, who handed over to the association a donation of VND15 million made by VNA’s employees. Nhan said the exhibition would help kick-start a series of activities for Dioxin-Agent Orange Victims’ Day, August 10. The idea for an exhibition dedicated to Agent Orange victims has been thought about for many years, said an organiser. The photographs showed the enormous strength of many Agent Orange victims in the way they had built their lives. They had been selected from hundreds taken over many years. Donations are welcome during the exhibition. At the opening ceremony, donors contributed a total of VND42.5 million (US$2,700) for the Agent Orange/dioxin victims. — VNS Sponsors of the Pain of Agent Orange exhibition are: The Electricity of Viet Nam; The Asian Institute of Technology, Viet Nam; The Military-run Viettel Corporation; The Viet Nam Daewoo Motor company (GM Deawoo Vidamco); The Hilton Ha Noi Opera Hotel.    http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/showarticle.php?num=04SOC190705 __________________________________________________________________ July 19, 2005 As indicated to Mr. Dobbie, since this matter is now before the courts, this office will only reply to Agent Orange questions put to us through Mr. Dobbie's counsel.  Information concerning the testing will be available in the near future.   -----Original Message----- From: webmaster@agentorangealert.com [mailto:webmaster@agentorangealert.com] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 10:18 PM To: Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca Subject: Dear Sir: I am writing in regards to a question I have for Col. Jestin of CFB Gagetown. I would like to ask him whether DND will be testing the sediments of lakes and rivers for the presence of hexachlorinebenzene this summer.  It is my understanding that Ken Dobbie has sent correspondence asking the same question and that you have replied to Mr. Dobbie that and I quote "this is a matter that my client does not need to share with you." I am surprised and confused by this statement. If my memory serves me correctly, during the Information session at CFB Gagetown, Col. Jestin made a statement to the effect that he would be happy to answer any questions. I am wondering if this is Col. Jestin's idea or someone else's plan. I think the Colonel's credibility may be at risk. I have heard nothing but good things about the Colonel's reputation and integrity. If this is not Col. Jestin's own idea then I suggest to you that it is a very sad state of affairs that someone else might have the power to ruin a man's reputation. Art Connolly AgentOrangeAlert.com _______________________________________________________________ From; Marilynn July 18, 2005  Hi, Ken.  Well, finally, you got their attention.  Mr. Gervais said in his > email that was posted on Art's Forum: "..As you can appreciate, this is a > matter that my client does not need to share with you.." referring to your > wanting to ask Col. Jestin whether DND will be testing the sediments of > certain lakes and rivers for the presence of hexachlorinebenzene this > summer.  This is a reasonable request to me and I think he does NEED to > share this with you and the rest of us who were exposed to these deadly > toxins, plus the public who are not involved in this class action now living > in Gagetown and surrounding areas.  They all have the right to know whether > their lakes and rivers are contaminated and he needs to be reminded that > these taxpayers are paying his salary. > > Col. Jestin spoke openly at the meeting at the Base Gagetown theatre in June > about how he would co-operate and answer any questions and that he would > make sure that our concerns were met. So much for that. > > Please keep us up-to-date on Art's forum and thanks for all you're doing. > Marilynn Thats a really good point Marilynn. Col Jestin did say he was open to questions didn't he? I wonder why the sudden about face. I think I will drop him a line and ask why -Art _________________________________________________________________ July 18, 2005 First Name: Danah Last Name: Woodworth City: Middleton Province: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: danahwoodworth@hotmail.com Comments: Hey Art and gang, well what a morning, i have been hung up on by some military members at base gagetown, when i told them what i was calling for, and have been told many time to get a lawyer to deal with this....so the road blocks are now set, and people have been instructed not to talk about this matter until the investigation is complete. I did speak with a lawyer acqauintance of mine and he informed me that i do not need a lawyer, that because this have been made public, it is all under the freedom of information act....so any suggestions to go around all this nightmare to get some answers that I and possibly you are looking for? This really eurks me, my dad served his country, his country failed him in a sense and now we lost him to a brain tumor, and i am suffering every day with unexplained medical severeties at times and I cant get any answers....but i will say this, hang in there gang, we together will work thru this and get some answers! Cheers! So they just hang up on people now when they ask questions!!!????? Jeesh... I love that...sooooo professional, so caring. Your lawyer friend is right you can gain info thru the Access to Information ... http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/ati/intro_e.asp    and be sure to sign up for the class action suit at .... http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/17/index.htm -Art ________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Steve Last Name: Sampson City: CFB Greenwood Province: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: zcs@eastlink.ca Comments: Hi everyone! I was alerted to this site by an old friend of mine I hadn't seen in quite a while. I met the Skiptons many years ago and know the family. I bumped into Sandy today at the grocery store and we talked. I had heard that her husband Mike had died recently, but certainly did not know the whole story. I have been following any news on the toxic poisioning of military and civilians by exposure to substances that were used by the military. After reading all this, I'm angered, not because it was done, but because we are being lied to about it. Well, the truth is out and hopefully, in the end, our country, in which our Fathers, Mothers, Husbands & Wives, Brothers & Sisters, proudly served, will do the right thing. My father wasn't stationed in Gagetown but I feel he became ill prematurely with a form of alzheimer's that I believe was brought on by exposure to the many chemicals in use in his trade at the time, which, I'm sure, some of them are still in use today. It will be interesting to see if the military really does care and do the right thing for the thousands of people, military and civilian, who have been affected by agent (pick a color). This should be everyone's fight, so I will do all that I can to increase it's exposure. I have a great idea! I sell items on ebay worldwide on a weekly basis, so I am going to be including this URL along with "AGENT ORANGE ALERT AT CFB GAGETOWN" in each of my ads in hopes that every page view I get will see it and come to this site. My heart goes out to all of you! Take care and keep spreading the word. It was great talking with you today Sandy! Thank you all for you most informative comments! Thank you Steve...the more people that know ...the better!! -Art _________________________________________________________________ From: Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca July 18, 2005 Mr. Dobbie:  It is not my intention to interfere in your communictions with DND personnel who may themselves want to share their personal information re Agent Orange with you.    More specifically, I had in mind the kind of e-mail you sent to Jody Carr on July 16 asking her to put you in touch with Col Jestin so that you could ask him whether DND will be testing the sediments of certain lakes and rivers for the presence of hexachlorinebenzene this summer.  As you can appreciate, this is a matter that my client does not need to share with you.   Jody Carr is a "him" not a "her"....time to get a program with the players. -Art ______________________________________________________________ From: Ken Dobbie July 18, 2005  Mr. Gervais   Please understand that I intend to keep on corresponding with any member of DND who initiates contact with me and I will keep on sending emails to serving members who contact the website with their horror stories of their sick families.    It is up to them whether they choose to post their stories of Agent Orange/Purple/White exposure and by doing so, they enter into a freedom of speech forum. The Right to freedom of speech is enshrined in our Charter of Rights and I expect that you will not interfere with those Rights.   As for your statement   "Any question you may have regarding DND involvement re Agent Orange (past and present)",    I really can't think of any question that I would have regarding DND involvement regarding Agent Orange. We already have detailed documents from DND that prove that DND sprayed over 1.3 million liters of defoliant from 1956 to 1984.    I trust that you will respect our right to freedom of speech with our communications with DND personnel if they wish to speak with us, the plaintiffs, or our lawyers.   Yours truly,   Kenneth Dobbie ----- Original Message ----- From: Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca To: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Cc: Benedict.SR@forces.gc.ca Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 11:27 AM Subject: FW: Class Action suit - Agent Orange Mr. Dobbie:   I wanted to speak with you in order to get the name of your lawyer.  I'm back from vacation today and had not read the Statement of Claim served on the Crown when I received a call from my client informing me that you had made contact re the summer testing program - hence I did not know that Mr. Merchant was representing you.   I have since tried you contact Mr. Merchant by phone but couldn't get through to him.   As a result of the legal proceedings you have begun, please be advised that I have directed DND personnel not to respond directly to your queries.  Any question you may have regarding DND involvement re Agent Orange (past and present) should be submitted to me through your counsel,.  I would appreciate it that you provide Mr. Merchant with a copy of this e-mail.    ----Original Message----- From: Benedict SR@DND/CF LA CCL@Ottawa-Hull Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 11:02 AM To: Gervais DA@DND/CF LA CCL@Ottawa-Hull Cc: Paradis N@DND/CF LA CCL@Ottawa-Hull Subject: FW: Class Action suit - Agent Orange Daniel,   As you requested.   I sent an e-mail to Mr. Dobbie and he called me back. He asked what you wanted to speak with him about. I told him that it dealt with an e-mail he sent to DND. He told me what the below e-mails says as well that he will continue to send e-mails to DND. He did say that you could contact him through his e-mail at kdobbie2@cogeco.ca.   If you need anything further let me know.   Stacy Benedict Claims Paralegal  / parajuriste de réclamations (613)995-1393  Benedict.SR@forces.gc.ca  | Facsimile/Télécopieur : (613)995-2242 DND/CF LA, Claims & Civil Litigation,Department of Justice - National Defence | 305 Rideau Street, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0K2 CJ MDN/FC, Réclamation et contentieux des affaires civiles, Ministčre de la justice - Défense nationale | 305 rue Rideau, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0K2 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada       -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Dobbie [mailto:kdobbie2@cogeco.ca] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 10:47 AM To: Benedict.SR@forces.gc.ca Cc: webmaster@agentorangealert.com Subject: Re: Class Action suit - Agent Orange Dear Stacy Unless it is a matter concerning my personal claim as a civilian, Mr. Gervais can call our class action lawyer, Tony Merchant, at 1 866 982 7777. regards, Kenneth Dobbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Benedict.SR@forces.gc.ca> To: <kdobbie2@cogeco.ca> Cc: <Paradis.NJ@forces.gc.ca>; <Gervais.DA@forces.gc.ca> Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 9:24 AM Subject: Class Action suit - Agent Orange Sir, I am a paralegal with the Department of National Defence and have been assigned to this file. Can you please send your telephone number where you can be reached as my Director, Mr. Daniel Gervais, would like to contact you regarding this file. Thank you. Stacy Benedict Claims Paralegal  / parajuriste de réclamations (613)995-1393  Benedict.SR@forces.gc.ca  | Facsimile/Télécopieur : (613)995-2242 DND/CF LA, Claims & Civil Litigation,Department of Justice - National Defence | 305 Rideau Street, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0K2 CJ MDN/FC, Réclamation et contentieux des affaires civiles, Ministčre de la justice - Défense nationale | 305 rue Rideau, Ottawa, Ontario, K1A 0K2 Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada Thank you for keeping us informed Ken! -Art _________________________________________________________________________ July 17, 2005 I was just looking through your website and was thinking how it would be if we were able to take those in Ottawa and the DVA out on the sports field at Gagetown and tell them that they are about to be sprayed with the chemicals that were sprayed from 1956 to date and tell them not to worry it won't hurt you, Give them 5 minutes to leave if they wish. For those who stay "if any" tell them they might not see their grandchildren grow up and they might not see their 70th. birthday.  Or better yet don't allow them to leave. We didn't have a choice at the time.  As for checking the base for chemicals that would be like me trying to find the footsteps I left there 40 years ago.   Harry Gordon   former Black Watch / RCR member Nemo Me Impune Lacessit ___________________________________________________________________________ July 17, 2005 First Name: Emilio Last Name: ST-Coeur City: Tracadie-Sheila Province: New Brunswick E-mail Address: emiliost_coeur@hotmail.com Comments: First, well done, I live in small town of 4000 peoples call Tracadie-Sheila in New Brunswick. In 1941 until 1994 Department of National Defence (DND) expropriated some lands (18,000 hectares) from the peoples of Leech, the purposes used for military training. In March 1997, the former Tracadie Military Range was transferred to the Minister of Natural Resources from the federal Department of National Defence. The transfer agreement ensured that the lands would be decontaminated sufficiently to permit forestry, blueberry cultivation and recreational uses. In July 5.2003 we send a petition to Office of Auditor General of Canada concerns clean up of the Tracadie military training area and raises some issues. We are concerned that only a surface decontamination was done in sector 10, even though it was known that there were several dump sites containing training bombs, ammunition refuse, 45-gallon drums and alleged toxic. This was also an impact area for air weapons, a! nd it is full of tear gas residue and training bombs with live cartridges containing hydrochloric acid, titanium tetrachloride (which is extremely toxic in liquid form), and red phosphorus. We remind the government that these substances represent a risk to the environment, watercourses, and the water table, and they suggest that this risk could be eliminated by doing a level 2 decontamination (to a depth of 45 cm) and cleaning up all dump sites. We are concerned that a surface decontamination was done in Sector 1 on the pretext that it contained only pyrotechnics, although in 2001 they found an artillery impact area saturated with bombs, some of which could contain explosive substances that represent a hazard to the environment and public safety. This impact area is less than 100 meters from the Grande-Rivičre Tracadie, and we recommend that a level 2 decontaminations be carried out. We concerned about the environmental risk caused by the enormous quantities of lead shot st! ill present in sectors 3, 5, and 6, and the white phosphorus, explosiv es and titanium tetrachloride in sectors 7 and 8 from the several hundred contacts indicating the presence of ammunition were not followed up because they were over 45 cm deep. We wish to know if the federal government will take further action to eliminate as much as possible all forms of contamination that represent a risk to the environment and public safety at the Tracadie ranges. The National Defence - Department of (DND) reply was, the clean-up of the unexploded ordnance (UXO) contamination sites at the Tracadie Military Range was carried out in the specified time stipulated in the federal-provincial agreement signed on March 10, 1997. We like to know if any of you veterans work in Tracadie range or know if DND used or dump alleged toxic in the range? If any of you have some information, PLEASE email me at emiliost_coeur@hotmail.com. The peoples of Tracadie-Sheila, we thank you for your time. ______________________________________________________________________________ Juky 16, 2005 Please take a look at the media page for an excellent article written by Gary King.It is very imformative and an excellent read!! http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/4/index.htm -Art ______________________________________________________________________ July 16, 2005 I urge everyone to read Ken Dobbie's submission on the Class Action suit page. http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/17/index.htm Ken has taken the time and effort to explain the process and how you can become involved with the class action suit. It is imperative and informative reading!!! -Art ___________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Morris Last Name: Sabanski City: Melbourne Province: Australia E-mail Address: sabanski@alphalink.com.au Comments: I have read many of the emails posted regarding spraying at Gagetown. My question is this: was the spraying limited to Gagetown, or were other bases ie: Boreden, Ipperwash, etc. also sprayed? It seems illogical to me that only Gagetown was sprayed. Does anybody know about this?? Hi Morris...Gagetown is qpproximatly 425 sq miles in size and 80 percent of it is dense brush. So much defoliant was used to clear the brush so the troops could use it for training exercises. I dont believe the other bases had as much forest or vegetation so may not have used it. I could be wrong. Does anyone else know? -Art _______________________________________________________________ First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: kentar@telus.net Comments: Re: AGENT ORANGE - GAGETOWN (letter sent as example) « Reply #90 on: Today at 08:24:54am » --------------------------------------------------------------------- This letter was sent to each and every member of the committee to sudy the Gagetown spraying. Somethings like the last paragraph was only sent to Ms. McLellan as it was only her office that responded like that. Now's the time fellows and Gals, let them know how you feel and what you would like them to report on. Oh yes! In the subject line I put (A question of Colors or Numbers.) Dear Honourable A. Anne McLellan Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, First of all that’s a mouth full, however I am writing you today on a more serious note and that is “the spraying that took place in Gagetown from 1956 until 1984” Now yes I know that the whole country are up in arms over a word or two such as Orange and Purple, but it seems to me that the Government and by extension your committee is also stuck on these words instead of the full facts. I am not asking you to re-label the drums that were sprayed in Gagetown that contained 2, 4-D and 2, 4, 5-T to have an orange strip painted around them but I do expect your committee to acknowledge the fact that it is the very same thing as Agent Orange. The words Orange and Purple isn’t what is killing us but the mixture of 2, 4-D and 2, 4, 5-T is, as well as the other chemicals that were spayed. Just because we were doing piece time spraying and had more time to look at and read the writing (labels)on the drums, rather then painting an Orange stripe around it, in no way made these chemicals! any less dangerous. Now I realize that if the only question that is going to be answered is how many drums were sprayed in Gagetown had an Orange or a Purple strip painted around them, then your answer of 2 and ˝ drums, for seven days, over 83 acres might even be technically true, but not morally nor honestly a correct statement. The chickens have flown the coop and it is a little late to close the gate. The Department of Justice Canada, Access to Information and Privacy and the Library and Archives Canada, have sent out untold copies of the spraying that did take place in Gagetown from 1956 through 1984 which contain in detail all of the sprays (Chemicals) that were used, the acreage sprayed, the amount of chemical per acre and the amount of drums used in any given year. I’m no genius but it only took me 5 minutes to figure out that Agent Orange is a mix of 2, 4-D and 2, 4, 5-T. There is so much information on the internet today that you can’t hide behind our ignorance anymore. The only differ! ence in 66 and 67 seems to be that they were the years that you also used Agent Purple along with Agent Orange and also the only years that you could blame the US for the spraying. Also the spraying that took place there after 1967 wasn’t much better just different poisons which if you had bought the chemicals from the US would have had a White stripe around them and would have been called Agent White. Seems that we are not too far off having all the colors of the Rainbow Chemicals here, or as might be coined at some later date, our own little Vietnam, with test subjects and all. Your committee is not being asked to settle all of the questions at once, well at least not by us. What we would like is the admission that what would have been known, if it were in Vietnam as Agent Orange, Agent Purple and Agent White were in fact sprayed in Gagetown and to what extent (amounts & acres) they were sprayed. That would be a first step in winning back the trust of tens of thousands. The question of how (and not if) it got out and affected the general public can be answered later. It could have been something as simple and innocent as having burned the dead brush and the Dioxin filled smoke drifting off the base, such as in this newspaper article from (Jul 11, 2001 12:00:00 AMCBC News) and I quote: “CFB Gagetown is planning to burn a huge section of scrub land next month. When it set a similar fire two years ago, it sent smoke billowing across south-western New Brunswick. The pollution was so bad; the environment department had to order the army to stop burning. This time, the military is promising to do a better job.” These burnings took place almost every year to rid the base of burnable ground cover, after spraying had taken place, that might have started fires during training. On another subject: I sent you an email a few days back and this is the response I received from your office, and I quote: “If you wish to receive a response to your comments addressed to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, please include your return mailing address along with your original e-mail message. All official responses will be sent by regular mail. If you wish to send correspondence addressed to the Minister through the regular mail, please use the following mailing address: The Honourable A. Anne McLellan Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness 340 Laurier Avenue West Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0P8” Are you really asking us to go back to the 40’s and wait a month for answers to our questions and statements? Now I don’t expect you to jump and write to me within minutes in fact I don’t believe that you personally will answer any of your Emails but I did expect a little more respect from your office, then what I got. Keep your workers in line and answering your emails as you would because it is a reflection on you, what they answer and say to your public. Cpl. Kenneth H. Young CD. (Retired) Always a pleasure to hear from you Ken -Art _____________________________________________________________________ From: Sandy Skipton July 15, 2005 My questions to NovaScotia Environmental Health Centre: NOW, my questions to you: 1) What are your views on dioxins being in the fat tissue of the body and the results of weight lose on the human system. What should these people be doing to add to their quality of life? 2) Can you guide me to having my husbands tissue tested for the presents of dioxins? 3) How can my daughter gain access to your clinic for help? She has tried to have doctors understand her problem, but records were not well retained in 1968 or the early 70s. She has been told all her life that her problems are not real. I am sure you've heard that story before. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Ms Skipton: In response to your inquiry, I have seen patients at the Nova Scotia Environmental Health Centre (NSEHC) who have been exposed to dioxins. Their illnesses are usually complex and typical of most of the patients that we see - chronic illness with diagnoses such as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Diagnoses are made from the clinical features and the history of exposure. There are no labs that measure dioxins in human tissue that I am aware of. The labs that we use to measure other chemicals in blood or fat do not measure dioxins and do not know of anyone that does. From my search of the medical literature, I note that dioxins are measured in research labs. I have found no association in the literature between colon cancer and dioxin exposure. It would be hard to estimate the level of exposure from playing soccer on a sprayed field even if attendance at a certain time could be established. There is no doubt that dioxins are toxic to humans and that exposure is linked to illness. Nevertheless, our society continues to use toxic materials to control weeds, etc. No one can sensibly argue that such exposure is healthy. I realize that this is a very hard time for you and was very challenging for your husband. I wish that I could provide more information that would be of help to you. We see patients who are referred by their family doctor or another physician where there is thought to be a link to the environment. I hope this helps. Yours sincerely, Roy A. Fox, BSc., M.D., M.E.S., FRCPC Medical Director Nova Scotia Environmental Health Centre --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I note the Confidentiality at the bottom.. May I quote Dr Fox's response in my correspondence? Thank you for responding... Sandy and Dr Fox responded: Yes she can quote me. Also add that any xenobiotic (foreign chemical) that is fat soluble will be released when losing weight., However it is also know that when fasting the detoxification systems are induced (become more effective). Very quick weight loss may overwhelm of the system if there is an excessive amount of any fat soluble xenobiotic stored. Thanks Sandy...great information! -Art ____________________________________________________________________________ July 14, 2005 Ken Young suggested we keep a running tally of letters sent to the parliamentary committee via our Email Campaign page. Great idea Ken!!  Thanks bud :) -Art ________________________________________________________________________ July 14, 2005 Just a reminder. Please go to the "Email Campaign" page and send the paliamentary committee studying the defoliant spraying a letter asking them to do the right thing. It is VERY important that this be done. We need to show the committee that the people of this country are watching what they do. This site has had over 150,000 hits so people ARE watching and caring. Let them know.... if not for yourself for a loved one. Go to the page and forward the letter to the committee to everyone in your email address book. Let everyone know what is going on. We have strength in numbers!!! ___________________________________________________________________ July 14, 2005 Thanks Art for the support,    My family and I have agreed to join the Class Action Lawsuit. The pain and suffering my Brother and Sister have been through and all the great Veterans who have served our country is heartbeaking. There isn't a soldier or veteran out there who would not take all the pain and suffering upon there own shoulders rather than see there wife, sons or daughters suffer, My father passed away not of Cancer as stated in the article but of a massive Heart attack. I call it massive Heart Break, he never spoke of the illneesses but let it slowly tear him up, I have no doubt in my mind what killed my Father and it mostly has to do with watching people close to you suffer immense pain and suffering as well as death and wondering was it something you did, could you have done more or did you do enough. The loss of loved ones has an incredible impact on you as a person and everyone deals with it in different ways, some turn to drugs, alcohol, prescription drugs, gambling along with depression,feelings of regret,feeelings of  guilt...I could go on and on . I will support my family through this and hopefully these actions will be a factor in forcing the studies, research and expose the truth. Pressure and Media attention will help keep this alive but most of all it is all of you willing to speak of the truth and demand action. Nothing will replace our losses but there is solace in truth.   Derrick Williams   Thank you and the others who have stepped up to the plate -Art  _________________________________________________________________ July 14, 2005 First Name: Danah Last Name: Woodworth City: Middleton Province: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: danahwoodworth@hotmail.com Comments: Hey there and thank you so very much for this website...a lot of interesting reads. My dad served with the RCR's in the mid to late 60's, unfortuneatly i was too young to remember anyone that he served with and he has since passed with brain cancer. I myself have multiple unexplained birth bone defects which suubsequently i have had many corrective surgeries, among the least were skull surgeries when i was a baby....i am really interested in some feedback on this...as i am very interestedin this as i am sure that many things have been related to my dad serving in gagetown at this time. My concern is for my children, and possible grandchildren, because research shows that this can affect up to 3 generations, and i am showing the birth defects, my children havent but what about their children? thanks again so much_________________________________________________________________ July 13, 2005 First Name: John Last Name: McDonald City: New Waterford Province: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: johnmc.donald@ns.sympatico.ca Comments: I was posted to Gagetown in the fall of 1968, to May 1969. During this period, much of my time was spent on the Artillary ranges. We used melted snow for drinking, cooking and washing. We uset the spruce bows for sleeping on, and in rainy weather, we were up to our buts in mud. Although a year had passed from the time the area was sprayed, I can be confident that I and my fellow soldiers were also exposed. I was in my early fifties when I had cardiac bypass surgery, and havn't felt well since. __________________________________________________________________ July 13, 2005 First Name: Don Last Name: Stenger City: Rockland Province: Ontario E-mail Address: dstenger@sympatico.ca Comments: I'm really interested in this story as my father is a retired CF (Black Watch and RCR) and was in Gagetown during this spraying (62-77). He asked me to contact DVA which I did but didn't find them helpful with dependant issues. Recently I was diagnosed with kidney cancer and as a result lost one of my kidneys. The doctors couldn't answer why or for how long I have had this disease. Cancer doesn't run in the family but as a kid, I remember going to the training area at camp Gagetown regularily for fishing and other outdoor ativities. One activity that comes to mind is picking blueberries, as a kid you always ate more than you dropped in the bucket. Is there a connection here or should the question be tell me that there isn't a connection here? I am writing this to ask for assistance and direction as there may be a connection to my or others health issues in similiar situations. Thank you for this forum. Please reply if you have any knowledge you wish to share. Don Stenger Call the DND/VAC Centre at 1-800-883-6094 to register as a civilian affected by the spraying of Agent Orange and various other defoliants at CFB Gagetown. Their website addresss is www.forces.gc.ca/centre. -Art ________________________________________________________________ July 13, 2005 First Name: arlene Last Name: kelly City: glace bay Province: nova scotia E-mail Address: arlenekelly770@hotmail.com Comments: thank you for the information and this web site. My father was stationed in Gagetown from 1957-59 and again from 1964-1970. He was with the artilliary he remember him spraying, my dad hasn't been sick but my mother has been thyriod problem and diabets, she has two miscarriages and my sister died at 3 months of age, no family history of SIDS or any of my mothers medical problems. As a PMQ Brat I ran behinded that truck that sprayed the area and played with my Dad's gear and drank the water out of his canteen when he came home from the bush, I have liver problems,bowel problems and keep getting abscess there is not family history of any of these diseases my family is wondering if all my health issue are related to my living enivirnment as a child. I am sure if my parents had known what they know today they would have taken percautions with Dads equipment and we would not have been able to run behinded the FOG My dad is proud to have served his country I hope that h! is country will not let him and his family down. My dad says it is one thing to poison him but his family well that another issue, the family never asked for this but on the other hand the soldiers of Gagetown never asked for is as well. God bless them all and their family and the thousand that this has effected. Once again I would like to thank you and god bless you. arlene kelly(wilson) Thank you for sharing your story Arlene and for your kind words -Art ___________________________________________________________________________ Submitted by Ken Young July 13, 2005 Agent Alert  Bangor Daily News   The most frustrating part of the earlier debate over the health effects of Agent Orange, the defoliant used during the Vietnam War, was the sense that the Pentagon wanted veterans to stop talking about the issue and just take its word for it there was little danger. That attitude gave the issue a life it otherwise would not have had. So now that Canada - and many U.S. states, including Maine - are in the early stages of reviewing the use of Agent Orange and its more potent form, Agent Purple, at a military base in New Brunswick, the chance to avoid the mistakes of the past couldn't be clearer. Maine's National Guard, like National Guard units from other states, has used the Canadian Forces Base Gagetown facility for years. In 1966 and 1967, Agents Orange and Purple were sprayed in one section of that base, and now Canada is trying to figure out what, if any, effects the spraying had on the guard members who trained there afterwards. The task before Canadian and U.S. military leaders is to ensure, first, that a thorough investigation is conducted into cancer rates and other illnesses among the trainees, and, second, that the public is kept informed along the way. There is some encouraging news on the second issue. Canadian officials have held public hearings on the spraying, taking statements from members of the public, who are, according to reports, deeply concerned about government behavior on this issue. Today, the head of Maine's National Guard, Maj. Gen. John Libby will be meeting in Augusta with officials from Togus to discuss the problem. The meeting is open to the press, a good sign. According to a recent news story, some in Canada already believe their government allowed the dioxin-bearing defoliants to poison the local water supply while others say they think the government secretly tested both agents on humans. The only way to refute such charges is to release as much information as quickly as possible. That means having the information to release, which could demand health surveys and related work. Affecting two countries and multiple states, the data-gathering challenge on this side of the border is an issue for Washington, but the release of information would come best if it came locally. This is a matter of trust, and, if the Canadian hearings are an accurate measure, it is trust that must be gained quickly.   Bangornews.com Staff ________________________________________________________________________ From Mike Christie July 13, 2005 Hi Art; Nice to hear from you. Glad to know that the are articles helpful. DND would prefer to sweep this latest crisis under the rug and hope it disappears from the media headlines sooner rather than later. But keeping the public and the media informed, like you've done on your website, will ensure that this issue doesn't go away. This is why I've coined the term 'Agent Fed' which represents a modern form of poison - that being the government and their various federal agencies who are participating in this toxic cover-up. Mike I love that tern "Agent Fed"...definitely a poison -Art P.S. Another form of toxic abuse occurring everyday across Canada and condoned by all levels of government are the overuse of lawn pesticides such as 2,4-D. 2005-07-13 London Free Press Lawns sprayed without consent http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/LondonFreePress/News/2005/07/13/1128981-sun.html Mike Christie ____________________________________________________________________________ From http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005/06/22/1099862-cp.html  July 12, 2005  FREDERICTON (CP) - A group of former soldiers and civilians who say they were exposed to Agent Orange and other defoliants at Canadian Forces Base Gagetown have launched a class-action suit against Ottawa.  The 41-page statement of claim filed before the Federal Court ofCanada states illnesses ranging from birth defects in children to cancer in adults were caused by the chemicals sprayed on the woods near Oromocto, N.B. The claim, which has not been proven in court, seeks punitive and aggravated damages, but no figure is mentioned in the court document. It also lists a series of questions to be answered in the hearing,including: -What was sprayed, when, where and how much?  -Did what was sprayed "escape" from the land controlled by the defendant?  -Can what was sprayed cause harm?  -Did the defendant breach a standard of care to the soldiers?  The Canadian military has acknowledged that Agent Orange and other defoliants were tested at the base by the U.S. military in 1966 and '67.  A base spokesman has said the testing occurred in two "very short test periods on very small pieces of ground."  However, the statement of claim says "the defendant has never been truthful when inquired about the full extent of the spraying operations thatwere conducted."   The claimants allege that "over one million litres had been sprayed between 1956 to 1984" as part of a testing program to determine the effectiveness of the defoliants.   The case names Kenneth Dobbie, Charles McLeod, Stewart McLeod, Derrick Williams, John Williams and Mary Williams as claimants. Stewart McLeod, of Springhill, N.S., was stationed at the base between 1967 and 1980, and states he was "directly exposed to the chemicals sprayed by the defendant."  Charles McLeod, Stewart's son, argues he was born with a variety of illnesses.  Mary Williams, of St. John's, Nfld., was also exposed to the chemicals while her husband, John Williams, was stationed at the base. John Williams later died of cancer.  In the statement, Mary Williams argues she suffered from type-2 diabetes and the increased costs of raising sick children.  The document says one of her daughters suffered from a brain tumor and cancer of the ovary; another son died of brain cancer in 1991. Kenneth Williams, one of her sons, died in 1991 of brain cancer. His brother, Derrick, is suing on his own behalf for lost companionship.  According to the claim, Dobbie worked in the woods as a 19-year-old, clearing brush that had been sprayed with defoliants. "During Christmas of 1966, (Dobbie) began to suffer severe stomach problems," says the document.  "Subsequently, he was also diagnosed with toxic hepatitis, stomach ailments, acne, seizure, blackouts and other neurological disorders. . . ." A group of landowners, who are not named, are also suing for damage to their land. While the Canadian military is downplaying the impact of Agent Orange tests at the New Brunswick base, the suit alleges they were dramatic.  "Dioxins pose an enormous risk to the health of those who come into exposure with it or areas that have been sprayed by it," the document states. "As a result of the spraying of hazardous substances, more than 170 soldiers . . . have wrongfully died and more are expected to die sooner than they would have died had they not been exposed." Brig.-Gen. Ray Romses, commander of Atlantic land forces for the past two years, has said he is confident tests being done on the base will prove there is no reason for concern about the defoliants.  Commercial varieties of Agent Orange were applied across Canada in the 1950s and '60s. The dioxin-laced ingredient in these defoliant mixtures - 2,4,5-T - wasn't banned in Canada until 1985.  While there is no question about the toxicity of dioxin, the health impacts remain difficult to prove.  Medical experts do not acknowledge a definite link between dioxins and illnesses like cancer and diabetes, but they do say there are some associations. Jody Carr MLA, Oromocto Gagetown (506) 357-3407 (t) (506) 357-7101 (f) www.jodycarr.ca ___________________________________________________________________________ July 12, 2005 Ok Boys and Girls.... I know we have seen this info many times but lets review!!!  Below is the reason we are all here.... -Art Submitted by Mike Christie Base Gagetown Summary of Chemical Spray Program (DND Documents - Right to Information) 1956 - 3687 acres - 24 oz 2,4 D and 24 oz 2,4.5 T mix per acre - 24 BARRELS 1957 - 3149 acres - 24 oz 2,4 D and 24 oz 2,4.5 T mix per acre - 25 BARRELS 1958 - 4469+2639+500 acres - 32 oz 2,4,5 T Mix per acre - 35 BARRELS 1959 - None 1960 - 9000+acres- 32 oz 2,4,5 T in Mix 20% fuel oil, 80% water 3.5 gallon/acre - 40 BARRELS 1961 - 5189 acres - 48 oz 2,4,5,T in Mix 20% fuel oil, 80% water 4 gallons/acre - 34 BARRELS 1962 - nil 1963 - 9653 acres - 40 oz 2, 4,D and 40 oz 2, 4, 5 T in one gallon fuel oil at 5 gallon/acre - 105 BARRELS 1964 - 10000 acres - 40 oz 2, 4, D and 40 oz 2, 4, 5 T in one gallon oil at 5 gallon/acre - 100 BARRELS 1964 - spray accident occurred (DND documents - presentation to NB Cabinet) chemicals drifted to Upper Gagetown and Sheffield Area. The federal crown paid approx. $250,000 to several market gardens in the area as reparation for the damage to their crops. DND stopped using 2, 4, 5, T mixture and changed its spray program the following year 1964 - DND started pursuing alternative chemicals, no funding available 1965 - changed chemical use to Tordon 101 - 4708 acres - 1 gal/acre - 301 BARRELS 1966 - tests began of alternative chemicals including Agent Orange and Purple People were DIRECTLY exposed to these deadly chemicals. Soldiers training and civilian workers handling and mixing the chemicals on Base during these years are claiming the exposure to these chemicals have lead to serious illness. 2,4,D and 2,4,5 T are components of Agent Orange and Purple. Experts said that the mixtures of these components in the mid to late 50's early 60's contained higher dosages of dioxin than in the late 60's early 70's even. The province of NB compensated in 2001 civilian workers at NBPower who handled these types of chemicals sprayed near power lines. The province did not send them to Workers Comp. The Federal Government has the moral and ethical responsibility to compensate directly all veterans and civilians who have an illness as a result of the exposure to these deadly chemicals while working at Base Gagetown since 1956. We await their response. MLA, Oromocto Gagetown (506) 357-3407 (t) (506) 357-7101 (f) <http://www.jodycarr.ca>www.jodycarr.ca ____________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: Art, I think I have you beat on soft and fuzzy caring responses to an email request to our members of Parliament. **************************************** If you wish to receive a response to your comments addressed to the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, please include your return mailing address along with your original e-mail message. All official responses will be sent by regular mail. If you wish to send correspondence addressed to the Minister through the regular mail, please use the following mailing address: The Honourable A. Anne McLellan Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness 340 Laurier Avenue West Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0P8 LOL....I think you do have me beat....Man  Oh Man that one really yanks at the heart strings....Ok everybody I think I feel a group hug coming!!!!! -Art  _______________________________________________________________________ ..and here's one from my baby sister :).....   July 12, 2005   Hi Art:   I just wanted to let you know that I called the DND/VAC Centre at 1-800-883-6094 to register   as a civilian affected by the spraying of Agent Orange and various other defoliants at CFB Gagetown. Their website addresss is www.forces.gc.ca/centre.   The person I spoke with (Esther) was very helpful. When I asked if they were concerned only with the dates of Jun 14 - 16, 1966 & Jun 21 - 24, 1967 (as seemed to be the case at another number I called) she said not necessarily. She stated she would record all the information concerning our family and they would send a letter or application at a later date. (appears they are not sure yet how they are handiing things but a least they are recording everything in detail).   She recorded Dad's name, service numbers, DOB & DOD, and listed all his health conditions. She recorded Patty and Chris's dates of death and that Patty died from a pulmonary embolism and Chris from Reyes Syndrome. She also recorded the fact that Mom had stomach cancer and required a gastrectomy and that I suffered from Endometriosis and had a miscarriage. She also recorded the fact that you and Kathy have no known health problems at this time.   You are doing a great job with the website! Mom said when you were a baby she went to a physic one time who told her that someday you would do something to make her very proud of you.   This is it ! Keep up the great work!!   Cindy   Thanks Cin..love ya... Art   _________________________________________________________________________   *********************************************** July 12, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Dobbie City: Kingston Province: Ontario E-mail Address: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Comments: Just to let everyone know, there is a class action lawsuit against the Federal Government being filed TODAY, July 12, It addresses the alleged negligence of the government in poisoning military personnel, their families, civilian personnel, their families, anyone who travelled reguarly in the base training area, contractors, etc. Also land and property owners surrounding the base. Watch the news as Louise Elliott is now aware of this, as well as the Canadian Press. Regards, Ken ******************************************* ______________________________________________________________ July 12, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: Re: AGENT ORANGE - GAGETOWN (The Famous Reports) « Reply #77 on: Today at 08:11:42am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut. Well here are the famous reports that started this US spraying of Gagetown in the years of 66 and 67. These are the years that the government wishes to center their attention but I must cashion you that it is not the only years that the very same stuff was sprayed as any one can realize if they ask for the DND reports on spraying in Gagetown. 1966 is http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/NB00070.pdf 1967 is http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/NB00030.pdf __________________________________________________________________ July 12, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: A letter back from Meg after she seen the 66 and 67 Reports ****************************** Thanks, Ken!! They used a lot more than just Agent Orange and Agent Purple! Cacodylic acid is an arsenic compound, and paraquat (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/paraquat/basics/facts.asp http://ptcl.chem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/PA/paraquat.html http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/summary.tcl?edf_substance_id=1910-42-5) and diquat are pretty toxic. The chlorinated benzene compounds are almost certainly carcinogens, and many of these compounds / contaminants are persistent. Chemical processes to make these were probably rather crude (as for Agents Orange and Purple), so they were probably pretty heavily contaminated with unreported toxins. Nice to know that we let them in to figure out the most efficient ways to kill our trees! - not! Ken Dobbie sent me some info about use of pesticides from 1956-84. As with this, there is little info about actual quantities of active ingredients (I would think that it is uncommon for the drums to contain 100% active ingredient - but maybe not). and the next question, of course, is what is happening today. Dioxin testing is obviously just scratching the surface of what they should be looking for. I'm not sure about the persistence of these other compounds and contaminants - if they might still be around. any responses re. detoxification on the website? Meg __________________________________________________________________________ Juy 12, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: This was my response to “Canadians not psychologically braced for terrorism, McLellan says” a topic I found on “CBC News, Analysis & Viewpoint”. Canadians not psychologically braced for terrorism, Well Maybe not, then again we weren’t braced for the Agent Orange spraying in Gagetown, of our own troops either. The question should not be if we the people are braced or not but whether the Government is prepared for it. Let face it, when someone wants to do something like that there is not much that we can do to prevent it. One thing to remember is that the Spraying in Gagetown has and will continue to kill more people then any small attack done by the terrorists, only we have dared to die slower, so not as choice a video or sound bite. Ken Young Nanaimo BC. ________________________________________________________________________ July 12, 2005 I received an email in response to my letter I sent from the email campaign page to Bill Graham Minister of Defence......              "This is to confirm that the Minister of National Defence has received your                recent e-mail.                Minister's Correspondence Unit                National Defence Headquarters" WOW I wasnt expecting it to be so down to earth and friendly....brings a tear to my eye...makes me feel better already...LOL -Art _______________________________________________________________________ Submitted by Ken Young   July 12, 2005   Here are the reports that started all of this Agent Orange questions and why the government has no longer been able to say that it didn't happen.   http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/NB00070.pdf   http://www.hatfieldgroup.com/files/NB00030.pdf   Ken   WOW....great reading Ken!!!!! -Art _________________________________________________________________________ Letter written to Edith Robb of Canadaeast.com July 12, 2005 Dear Ms. Robb.  I do not understand for the life of me why you did not contact me directly instead of asking Art to be a go-between.  You have my email address. Art's website is a central forum for all of us across this vast country who were exposed to the toxic spraying of deadly chemicals between 1956 and 1984.  No one is a "member".  This is a national issue and we need a central forum to collect information.  We also need all the co-operation and support that we can get especially from our local media. As I understand it, articles appearing in your newspapers are owned by Brunswick News Inc.  On your canadaeast.ca home page at the bottom, you state: "Any copying, redistribution or retransmission of any of the contents of this site WITHOUT THE EXPRESS WRITTEN CONSENT OF BRUNSWICK NEWS INC. is expressly prohibited."  I would take this to mean then that consent CAN be given.  These articles originate from you and are not bought by you from another source. Your decision not to allow us to copy these articles to Art's website may be legal but hardly moral.  You consciously made a decision to not allow them to be posted on the site and could have chosen otherwise. Marilynn (Doherty) Kirchgessner Dartmouth, NS ______________________________________________________________________ July 12, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo Province: BC E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: Re: AGENT ORANGE - GAGETOWN (losing weight after Dioxin)  Reply #76 on: Today at 06:38:43am » -------------------------------------------- To: 'Meg Sears' from Ken Young I know that you have been helping a lot but I was wondering if you could do me a favour. Ever since I started to ask about the linkage between fat and Dioxin, here has been one thing bothering me. What is bothering me is that I have no medical article or statement to the fact of losing weight might be harmful if Detoxification isn't undergone first. Most of the people here were soldiers and continually try to get back in (fighting) shape, maybe not such a good idea and the others are people that may just have lost mates and friends and will do the normal thing and try to lose weight and firm up, before getting back into the social frenzy. What I need (for posting) is some sort of an article from a (possibly detox) Doctor Specialist. So that I can warn the people involved to seek doctors attention and detoxification before they try to loose weight at the gym on their own. I don't want any more people to die over this especially if they didn't have to. ******************************************** >From 'Meg Sears' Do you have an article to this effect? Ken is one of the many who was made ill by spraying at Gagetown. There was a lot of Agent Orange, Agent Purple (both 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T with lots of dioxins) and Agent White (2,4-D with picloram, contaminated with both dioxins and hexachlorobenzene). Ken's health went downhill in a major way several times, when he tried to lose weight. I know that that is the experience, and that it is logical, but wonder if there is documentation to this effect. thanks! Meg *********************************************** >From Rohini to Meg and then to me. Hi Ken - one response, from the head of the Allergy and Environmental Health Association, Quebec. Meg _____________ He has to be very careful while detoxifying - fasting, exercise, sauna, etc., - as the resulting release of toxins into the blood stream will result in strong symptoms. Organic food is essential as it stops or slows the intake of more chemicals. The 'Hubbard' method of detox, includes vitamins, minerals for support. These are very essential to remove the toxins safely. I have heard of people getting ill with liposuction. Presumably from the release of toxins. In the case of people who are known to be poisoned, it is not a wise choice. Even now, when I exercise and sauna, I have painful symptoms. The vitamins and minerals, oxygen and other things I have to do support the detoxing. After 9 years of detox, the level of the pesticide in the blood has gone down by half. And that was a lot of painful work! Rohini ********************************************** I have asked some very knowledgeable people for this information because you (if you were exposed to Dioxin) should know that you can't just go out and get back into shape because it will kill you or at the very least make you very sick. Seek Medical help if you think that you may have been exposed and if you want to lose some weight, do in under doctors' care and with the knowledge that it's not going to be done over night. I will add to this posting if or as more responses are received by me. Here are some links they provided, describing the detoxification process and procedure: http://immune.best.vwh.net/articles/detox.html http://www.detoxacademy.org/detox.htm (scroll down that page for references showing sauna detox works) and http://www.nydetox.org/results.htm Thank you for listening. ___________________________________________________________________ July 11, 2005   Edith:   I have nothing to do with this person writing to you. I suggest that you contact her directly.   As for the line .....   " To do so places me in serious legal compromise as well as yourself.".....   I dont like that comment Edith. It sounds like a threat. I explained to you that when I had posted articles from your papers that it was done in error and ignorance. I apologized and you replied that my explanation was accepted and taken in good faith.   For you to ask me to deal with your correspondence is somewhat of annoyance Edith. That is your job not mine. I receive no revenues or salary for operating this website and my time is very very scarce. I can apprecaite that you are NOT the decision maker and may I suggest that you refer any correspondece that you receive  to Ms. Richardson.   I will post your request and my repsonse so that people (not members) can be aware of your concerns.   Sincerely   Art Connolly      ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robb, Edith" <edith.robb@canadaeast.com> To: <artconnolly@rogers.com> Cc: <mare7@eastlink.ca> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:10 AM Subject: FW: Agent Orange Issue with canadaeast.com Art....can you let this person know the legalities of the situation please? Secondly, perhaps the holder of the content might assist you if you called...it might be worth a try. The person to contact is: Juanita Richardson, Consultant and Licensing Management, CEDROM- SNi www.cedrom-sni.com Phone: 1-416-260-9471 Fax: 1-416-260-1559 Cell: 1-416-809-8490 Again, I must ask that you make your members aware that I cannot give them permission to publish what we do not own. To do so places me in serious legal compromise as well as yourself. It must be pointed out to your members the legal issue of copyright, not that we are being mean to your organization. In fact, I believe we are bending over backwards to work with you on this, but reactions such as this do not help. I must ask you again to contact the holders of the copyright, Cedrom, and see if arrangements can be made, and in some way let your members know the reality of the situation. Edith -----Original Message----- From: Marilynn [mailto:mare7@eastlink.ca] Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 12:44 PM To: Robb, Edith Subject: Agent Orange Issue with canadaeast.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marilynn" <mare7@eastlink.ca> To: <letters@cbc.ca> Cc: "Kenneth Young" <Kentar@telus.net>; "Andy Scott" <Scott.A@parl.gc.ca>; "Art Connolly" <artconnolly@rogers.com>; "Dawna" <gramer@nb.sympatico.ca>; "Greg Weston" <greg.weston@tor.sunpub.com>; "Ken Dobbie" <kdobbie@cogeco.ca>; "Lowell Green" <lgreen@cfra.com>; "Pierre Loiselle" <pierre_loiselle@hotmail.com>; "Stephanie Rubec" <stephanie.rubec@tor.sunpub.com>; "Jody Carr" <jody.carr@gnb.ca> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 11:46 AM Subject: Agent Orange Issue with canadaeast.com > As the House has recessed, coverage of this issue has weakened but there > are > many of us working hard to keep this issue in the forefront.  Art Connolly > has created an excellent website where we can go for the latest > information > on Agent Orange, on who to contact re our health issues and compensation, > and a place where we can all come together and share our stories of > exposure > to these deadly chemicals from 1956 - 1984 at Base Gagetown.  His website > is: > > http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/6/index.htm and there is a reference > to the Forum section on the main page. > > MLA for Gagetown, Jody Carr, www.jodycarr.ca also is using his website to > keep us up-to-date on the status of this issue. > > Our problem now is that canadaeast.com, who own the three major newspapers > in New Brunswick, The Fredericton Daily Gleanor, the Moncton Times & > Transcript and the Saint John Telegraph Journal, are demanding that we do > not copy articles from their newspapers onto these websites without > financially compensating them.  I have attached posts from Art's website > pertaining to this issue so you can see what is happening. > > We are all very upset over their position.  Instead of supporting us and > understanding that these sites are a central source for information from > various media, they are trying to do everything they can to stop this from > happening.  As Ken Dobbie said, he'll never give them another interview > and > pointed out that he gave them an interview without compensation so why > should he have to pay for the article? If it weren't for him and others > being interviewed, they wouldn't have a story to begin with. > > We need these websites, a central place where we can all go to, to keep up > on what is happening.  You'd think our local newspapers would be > supporting > us in every way they can rather than making it so difficult and turning > their backs on us. > > Thank you for listening, > > Marilynn (Doherty) Kirchgessner > Dartmouth, NS And the beat goes on....la dee dah dah dah...la dee dah dah dahhhhh. Art _________________________________________________________ July 11, 2005 First Name: Charlotte Last Name: Seehawer City: Calgary Province: Alberta E-mail Address: cseehawer@hotmail.com Comments: In September 2004 I traveled to Phnom Penh Cambodia to provide love and care of babies in an orphanage. As I entered the room that was home to 15 babies, I saw a 3 month old baby laying on a dirty floor and he was wearing a moldy diaper. This beautiful baby boy captured my heart right then and there. When I reached down and oicked up this tiny bundle, out poped two tiny under developed arms. The left leg on his body is also under developed. This babies deformities are known as Congenital Amputation. After spending one month at the orphanage caring for the babies it was time for me to return to Canada. To make a long story short, apon my return home I told my husband and 17 year old daughter about this little baby and if he was able to live long enough to be released from the orphanage at age 16 the remainder of his precious life would be spent begging in a market in order for him to survive. After much prayer and family discussion it was decided that I would return to Cambodia, with out the support of the Federal or provincial government. On January 6th 2005 I arrived in Phnom Penh and started the process of adoption of this beautiful baby boy. During my 5month stay, it was very difficult to find someone to answer the question of what caused this baby to be born with congenital amputation. It wasn't until I met a doctor that had been trained in Singapore that he informed me about Agent Orange and the effects that this deadly chemical produce. The good news is that I was able to be reunited with my husband and daughter after 5 months of seperation and I presented them with our new son and brother. This baby has brought so much joy to all that meet him. He will be given a chance to grow and thrive in his new home. The more I research the effect of Agent Orange the more terified I become with all of the other effects of this deadly posion that could be hiding in his body just waitng to appear. We love this baby more than anything and will do everything in our power to keep him healthy. I'm just so angry that after this many years the horror of this chemical is still with us not only Cambodia and Vietnam but in our own country caused by our own country. If you are willing please pray for our bay Samuel who celebrated his 1st birthday on June 30th Thank you for sharing your story Charlotte....I have a feeling that Samuel has had people praying for him already.... and you , your husband and daughter are the answer to those prayers :) -Art _____________________________________________________________________ This is something that I sent to CTV after reading one of their articles on the CTV Web site. We all appreciate when they put Agent Orange and Gagetown in the news, and we thank them for doing so. BUT.  ----  first the article*******************************************  Agent Orange sparks concerns about toxic sprays  Canadian Press  FREDERICTON - While the Canadian military is downplaying the impact of  Agent  Orange tests at a New Brunswick base 40 years ago, the implications are widening for a whole generation of people who grew up prior to the age of environmental awareness.  Soil, water and vegetation tests will be conducted at Canadian Forces Base  Gagetown this summer to determine if there are lingering effects from the  use of toxic herbicides, including Agent Orange, during the 1950s and 60s.  Brig.-Gen. Ray Romses, commander of Atlantic land forces for the past two  years, says he is confident the tests will prove there is no reason for  concern.  "We believe that we will find that everything is quite satisfactory, but  it  is important to do the tests to ensure that we can give that reassurance,"  says Romses, who is leaving his post to take up military liaison duties in  the United Kingdom. Revisiting the Agent Orange controversy, which first came to light in the 1980s, has meant revisiting an era when Canadians could literally pick  their  poison from a host of pesticides, herbicides and defoliants now considered dangerous.  While people who worked on and lived near Gagetown worry about the  potential  health impact of dioxin - the toxic ingredient in Agent Orange - many  Canadians who grew up in the 50s, 60s and 70s may now be wondering about  their exposure to DDT, PCBs chlorobenzenes and the other widely used  chemical concoctions.  All of these products were legal at the time, begging the question: what  debt, if any, does the Canadian government owe for allowing these  chemicals  to be used in the first place?  "It's a terrible thing to acknowledge that we poisoned a generation of  people," says Morag Carter, spokeswoman for the Suzuki Foundation, a  Vancouver-based environmental organization.  "But if we don't learn from that and encourage people to tell their  stories  and demand answers . . . there is no way we'll be able to address these  issues in the long term."  Carter notes that Canada was the first country to sign the Stockholm  Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants in 2001. The convention lists  12  chemicals, including dioxin, to be eliminated from use.  She says signing the agreement was an acknowledgement by Canada that it  recognizes the health risks from dioxin and the costs to the environment.  "The problem with our national efforts around things like toxic chemicals  is  that we're great at saying stuff and we are absolutely terrible at  implementation."  Carter believes other communities and groups of people will come forward  in  the future, perhaps as a result of Gagetown, to demand answers about  pollutants in their neighbourhoods.  Fore example, she says, commercial varieties of Agent Orange were applied  across Canada in the 1950s and 60s. The dioxin-laced ingredient in these  defoliant mixtures - 2,4,5,t - wasn't banned in Canada until 1985.  In New Brunswick, the provincial government and its Crown-owned power  utility, NB Power, applied commercial versions of Agent Orange on forests  and along power lines.  In the 1980s, an NB Power memo was uncovered by former utility workers  that  confirmed the spraying of the commercial version of Agent Orange along  power lines.  Those who did the spraying believed their health was permanently harmed by  the exposure and they demanded, and eventually received, government  compensation.  The 1961 memo also revealed that several people in the village of Hoyt,  N.B., not far from Fredericton, became ill after eating raspberries doused  with dioxin-contaminated herbicide. The raspberries were picked near a  power  line.  One elderly woman said her vision was damaged, but she did not seek  compensation.  Wayne Dwernychuk, an environmental consultant who spent several years  testing dioxin levels in the countryside of Vietnam, says people exposed  to  forestry and power company sprays have cause to be worried.  "Yes, there may be some concern in that area depending on how close these  power lines were to villages and communities," he says.  While there is no question about the toxicity of dioxin, the health  impacts  remain tenuous and difficult to prove.  Medical experts do not acknowledge a definite link between dioxins and  illnesses like cancer and diabetes, but they do say there are some  associations.  "It is a very shadowy science right now in terms of the impacts of  dioxin,"  says Dwernychuk. "That's why there is such a public reaction, you never  really know what the impact is going to be from a medical perspective."  Ironically, one of the consequences of the Agent Orange controversy at CFB  Gagetown was the recent decision by the Maine National Guard not to train  at  the New Brunswick base until it gets a clean bill of health.  Agent Orange and other defoliants were tested at the base by the U.S.  military in 1966 and 67.  Romses says he understands the national guard's concerns given Vietnam and  the on-going fallout over Agent Orange exposure.  But he says the two situations cannot be compared.  "The spraying in Vietnam was widespread and in heavy concentrations," he  says.  "That's not what occurred here in Gagetown where we are talking about two  very short test periods on very small pieces of ground."  Romses says the national guard will be given environmental test results  from  Gagetown as soon as they are ready.  And now my feedback to the  article ********************************************************  Again I am reading but not believing my eyes. Doesn't anyone do  investigative reporting any more or is it too easy to tow the line and  write  what we are told, without checking out the facts for ourselves? And don't  give me the, "I got it from three sources" line because three or even ten  people handing you the same line of bull, does not make it true. The same  people that are now your sources about how much was sprayed and over how  much ground that it sprayed, are the very same people and / or sources  that  told you that it never happened, not all that long ago.  I'm not a reporter but had the where with all to ask for the spray  documents  from the Access to Information and Privacy people and received the  documents  within two weeks of asking. Yes there are blanked out spots and there are  pages missing, however the list of chemicals and amounts used and the  acres  sprayed are there for everyone to see and the line that I just read in  your  paper is deplorable. Yes, we need all the publicity that we can get and  the  fact that you have been writing these stories makes us all thankful but  please use the correct numbers.  From The Department of National Defence own papers you will find that the  spraying in Gagetown went this way.  1956         3,687 ac          2, 4-D and 2, 4 5-T                  24  Barrels  1957         3,879 ac          2, 4-D and 2, 4 5-T                  25  Barrels  1958         8,018 ac           Ammate +  2, 4 5-T                  35  Barrels  1959  1960         9,079 ac                     2, 4 5-T                  40  Barrels  1956         5,189 ac                     2, 4 5-T                  34  Barrels  1962  1963         9,653 ac          2, 4-D and 2, 4 5-T                 105  Barrels  1964         9,225 ac          2, 4-D and 2, 4 5-T                 100  Barrels  Do I really have to go on?  Found at http://www.lewispublishing.com/orange.htm states  Agent Orange was a 50-50 mix of two chemicals, known conventionally as  2,4,D  and 2,4,5,T.  Also found at http://www.usvetdsp.com/agentorange.htm it states that,  The various chemicals were labeled by color-coded stripes on the barrels,  an  arsenal of herbicides known by the colors of the rainbow, including Agent  Blue (which contained arsenic), Agent White, Agent Purple, and the lethal  combination of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, Agent Orange.  Clearly showing that agent orange (2, 4-D + 2, 4, 5-T) were spray as early  as 1956 and over a lot more acres that they will admit to and in  quantities  that they have not yet admitted to.  None of us is asking any of the reporters to go out on a limb with  improvable facts and just stories from some of us aging old fogies. But at  least do some digging and get the true facts out there. The poop that the  politicians are handing out we have all heard so it's not really news  anyway. Be a hero and tell the country the truth, they deserve no less,  and  in the year of the VET so to the soldiers that have been affected as well  as  their families and anyone else that are hurting from the unfortunate  history of Gagetown defoliant spraying.  Thank you for your time  Kenneth H. Young  ***********************************  Now that's a few more then 83 acres, just a smidgen more then 7 days and  one  heck of a lot more then 2 and 1/2 barrels but most of all these years  aren't  even admitted to having been sprayed with agent orange YET. ______________________________________________________________________ July 10, 2005 First Name: Sandy Last Name: Skipton City: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: info.needed@ns.sympatico.ca Comments: Oh boy!!.. It seems it is not understood that we are intelligent and we know that the 50s, 60s and 70s, most likely even now, Canadians were exposed to a lot of 'poisons'. THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!   The story is getting twisted and Media is reporting a twisted look. Have any of us argued that the government should go back and NOT spray? Well that is not my argument. My main concern is the fact that the government chose to HIDE and LIE when asked point blank. That the information was EXPOSED and not freely given. Many trades did/do spray chemicals but think,  they KNOW what they are spraying and they also KNOW the precaution's that SHOULD be taken. Under any circumstances dioxins are poison and IF the local people and service members had KNOWN then they too could have taken precautions. The major point is that they were not informed (except to be told it was safe) and when the government discovered it was not safe, the government chose to NOT let these people know. Chemicals have become part of our life (terrible but true) but they must be used properly and controlled, IF they are used properly and IF our medical services have the information to know what to watch for in the event of a health problems developing... Government secrecy and lying when they could have come forward so many times in the past has just become pretty overwhelming to those that are dealing with or have lost family members when medical attention could have and may have extended their life and mostly their quali!  ty of life. Being ill or having pain for years, not knowing why and doctors not knowing what the cause might have been is TORTURE, both mental and physical for the person and for their families... When our government made a mistake by spraying why did they keep the info a secret? Why did they not speak up and let us, or at least our medical system  know, so that we could protect ourselves to the best of our ability? It is the secretiveness and the denials that have hurt so many. We have expected, and rightly so, that our government should be honest. Our government officials are elected by us to represent us and protect us. This is what they have fallen down on. They had a mess to clean up and the mess could have been better handled by treating us with respect a long time ago. Everone makes mistakes but for some reason our government thinks hiding mistakes is the right way, well sorry but admitting a mistake AS SOON AS IT IS DISCOVERED will go a long way to preventing or at least starting on a path to correct the resulting problems. They have grudgingly chosen to accept the 66 and 67 sprayings BUT NOT THE RESULTS of the time taken to get this truth, why not go all the !  way and be completely TRUTHFUL and sort this out. Sorry, but it is time that the someone realize that THE POINT is the SECRETIVENESS, DENIALS and HIDING OF INFO in the past has done the major damage and it is still continuing. Our governement is like a child that gets into trouble and the infamous "Mr Nobody" shows up.. 'not me'   'I am not doing anything'   'HE did it!'  (we all know how kids respond). Well it is time for our Government to grow up and take responsibility for their LIES!!!!!   Guess my blood pressure is up a bit, caused by the twisting of the problem... grrrrrrrrrrrrrr Spoken from the heart... -Art _________________________________________________________________________ July 10, 2005 From :Gerry <salmon_gerald@hotmail.com>  I also served in Gagetown and also took courses there. I took my release from Gagetown in 1980.I could not help but notice how many good buddies who also served there died at an early age mostly from cancer.In  about 1985 I wrote to the Calgary Sun asking if they could investigate this curious anomaly,no answer!.I then asked my MP to ask the Government to own up to the use of agent orange in Gagetown,again no answer. There is a ice cold freshwater spring at a place called Summer Hill there where we could drink ice cold water after bouncing around in a dusty tank all day and I,am sure a lot of the barrels of agent orange which I do believe were held at Survival village rusted and leached into the ground. I also recall the indiscriminate spraying used to combat the Spruce Bud Worm which was sprayed on top of us when we were out in the Training Area.Unfortunately my old buddies long gone cannot speak about this and I,am sure our Government would like this swept under the carpet. _______________________________________________________________ July 10, 2005 First Name: Wayne Last Name: Coady SF105917 City: Cole Harbour Province: Nova scotia E-mail Address: wcoady@accesswave.ca Comments: I am now starting to remember dates. In July 1967 the Queen Mother visited Base Gagetown and I went through with 172 training squad. In 1966 through to 68 we were all over that base. I recall being put in the base hospital for lung infection, now I am wondering what caused that infection? Over the years I have had health problems and this news about the chemicals used on the base have me concerned, not just for myself, but my children. Those who authorized this, should be held criminally responsible, because here we are learning about this 40 years later. Ken Dobbie is correct this is not just about the years 1966 and 67, and it is not just about those of us who were military, this is about abusing civilian citizens and what gave the “government” or more to the point the elected party of the day to abuse their power and trust? Sf105917 Trooper Coady ______________________________________________________________________ July 9, 2005 Hi Gang: Just a note to mention that I will be tinkering around with the website a little bit. I need to organize it a little more...make it easier reading. Nothing major ....I will try ensuring that media stories that have found their way on the forum page get to the media page and further media stories submitted end up there too....lol   I will try and make those comment boxes a little more spacious for you folks who have much to say ...lol  This is a first time website for me and I appreciate all your patience and compliments and suggestions. Please dont stop with your suggestions. We are all in it together and if you notice something that will make the site better please let me know. And for those of you who want me to put my pic on the site...Cut it out...we want to attract people not scare them away...LOL I have a request for all of you.....Hug your family and tell them you love them :) -Art ________________________________________________________________________ July 8, 2005 I have added a new page to the site  "Stand up and be counted!"  Lets find out how many are living or have lived with the effects of the defoliants. Take a look and submit your info. Lets show the powers that be what they are dealing with here. -Art _______________________________________ Letter written to letters@cbc.ca As the House has recessed, coverage of this issue has weakened but there are many of us working hard to keep this issue in the forefront.  Art Connolly has created an excellent website where we can go for the latest information on Agent Orange, on who to contact re our health issues and compensation, and a place where we can all come together and share our stories of exposure to these deadly chemicals from 1956 - 1984 at Base Gagetown.  His website is: http://www.agentorangealert.com/pages/6/index.htm and there is a reference to the Forum section on the main page. MLA for Gagetown, Jody Carr, www.jodycarr.ca also is using his website to keep us up-to-date on the status of this issue. Our problem now is that canadaeast.com, who own the three major newspapers in New Brunswick, The Fredericton Daily Gleanor, the Moncton Times & Transcript and the Saint John Telegraph Journal, are demanding that we do not copy articles from their newspapers onto these websites without financially compensating them.  I have attached posts from Art's website pertaining to this issue so you can see what is happening. We are all very upset over their position.  Instead of supporting us and understanding that these sites are a central source for information from various media, they are trying to do everything they can to stop this from happening.  As Ken Dobbie said, he'll never give them another interview and pointed out that he gave them an interview without compensation so why should he have to pay for the article? If it weren't for him and others being interviewed, they wouldn't have a story to begin with. We need these websites, a central place where we can all go to, to keep up on what is happening.  You'd think our local newspapers would be supporting us in every way they can rather than making it so difficult and turning their backs on us. Thank you for listening, Marilynn (Doherty) Kirchgessner Dartmouth, NS I wonder what they would have paid to NOT have this bad publicity...  :) -Art ______________________________________________________________________ July 8, 2005 First Name: Butch Last Name: Mac neil City: North Sydney,NS E-mail Address: butchm@webmail.cgc.ns.ca Comments: I also was in the Black Watch in the 60,s tooand was there in 66 whenthey sprayed.I also was on a special detal at a compound guarding 45 Gal drums in the spring of 66.But I was not told wat it was.????????The must be other people who did the same as me.I was in the 1st. Bn. B Coy Speak up B Coy -Art ____________________________________________________________________ July 8, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Dobbie City: Kingston, Ontario E-mail Address: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Comments: Hi Everybody....   This is for Kenneth Young and for anyone who had a relative, parent or a friend who died from Agent Orange related disease.   A lot of media attention was centred on myself because I was the person who originally called the CBC about a group of civilian teenagers being poisoned by Agent Orange, myself being one of them.  If you do not know, I was a military brat (and I say that proudly) hired to clear the defoliated brush and burn it in the summer of '66.   Today...I am very ill with seven major dysfunctions and diseases....anyway, my story has already been told.   But I wanted to reiterate how some of this recent attention to the poisoning of military and civilians began because it is important to have everyone out there understand that one person can make a difference.   And that next person could be you.   So do stand up and be counted, write your stories here, then forward them to your MP and your MLA. Contact your local reporter, TV, Radio, anyone who will listen to your stories about how you were poisoned and how sick you or your family is. Do not be afraid to come forward. It is only by numbers and constant reminders of the truth that we can beat the sense into our politicians and by keeping up the pressure on them.   I want to briefly tell you all how this began at least for me anyway. At first it was a very frustrating experience trying to get someone to listen to me about teenagers being poisoned. Thank god for David Taylor, Parliamentary Bureau Chief for the CBC in Ottawa who listened to me and then sent Louise Elliott and a cameraman/producer to my home in Kingston to film and interview me.   And as a result of that six hours of filming and interviewing, when they went back to Ottawa, they decided that the story had a lot of impact and CBC management decided to send Louise Elliott and a team to go to New Brunswick where they did an initial investigation and started to find what I had been telling them about.   Then the story got bigger, because the more they dug, the more horrifying the stories became and they decided that it belonged on the National News. By this time, everyone was coming forward with their own stories of what had happened to them and Jody Carr MLA for the Oromocto/Gagetown riding was being very instrumental in making this whole mess public as well. The rest is and will be history.   Now to address Kenneth Young's concerns about where everyone is and why people are not posting.   Well, Kenneth, I suppose one reason and I don't mean to be cavalier in my answer, but it may well be that they have passed away already. I have found one person who worked with me cutting and burning the defoliated brush. Unfortunately, I did not get a chance to talk to him. Only his widow, he died in 1996 at 48 years of age of prostrate cancer. She told me that he had been very sick for a long time with various ailments. Type 2 Diabetes and so on. He died too soon and so young and I have to tell everyone who reads this, from my heart that I feel a little guilty that I am still here...I know that may not be rational, but it is how I feel. I have received dozens of emails from people who are sick and dying. I feel honoured that people have shared their lives with me and in such intimate detail. I feel part of that openness with me may be because of what I said about my illnesses on national TV and that I allowed the CBC to film me being examined by my doctor when I was really ill that day. Perhaps, perhaps not.   My other story about Agent Orange is about my Dad. He died in July 1999, jeez...it is hard to believe that it will be six years in just a couple more weeks.   He died in agony from a rare cancer, cholangiocarcinoma (cancer of the liver bile ducts). He started with heart problems in 1986, congestive heart failure, heart attacks, then Type 2 Diabetes, then he developed the rare biliary duct cancer of the liver.   Dad was in the 2nd Battalion Black Watch ( for those who might have known him his name was Bob Dobbie, Quartermaster Sergeant) and he was in the training area many times during 1959 to 1962, and then also in the mid to late sixties. He was undoubtedly exposed and poisoned  many times and when the Black Watch was disbanded he was transferred into the RCR's. And he also took part in Exercise Running Jump II in 1971. Dad retired from the forces in 1973 and then started having his health problems in the mid 1980's.   As I said he died six years ago. So perhaps there are a lot of others out there who have passed away, but their families don't know why. That is why it is so important to get the information out there to the public and to continue doing so.   If you read this post, and I know that there are thousands of people logging on, and you think that your family member is sick or has died of Agent Orange poisoning, I implore you to write about it, contact anyone who will listen and put pressure on those who were responsible. And above all, never give up hammering away at those who were responsible.   There are things that are happening behind the scenes that WILL make the government sit up and take notice. So, it is important to document all your illnesses, your family illnesses and start to get a history on paper. There will be more stories, Louise Elliott is going to be working on more of them when she gets back from vacation on July 18th. So do not give up. Persevere. And tell us your stories so that they become part of a written record.    And as Sandy said to me about the government ....Beware, because we are here and aware...Thank you Sandy for that, I think it is a great slogan.   Start writing.   Kenneth Dobbie For the love of God listen to what this man is saying people! -Art __________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: Come on fellows, I can't be the only one in the RCR who has some problems due to the spraying of and exposure to Agent Orange / Purple, in Gagetown. I can not be sure about most of the Battalion but I know for a fact that Recce Platoon was severely exposed in 1971 during Exercise Running Jump II. I have been looking for any one that was in Recce Platoon during that year but so far have only found one. This site could use some input from Soldiers that have been affected by this spraying or it begins to look like the statement of "very few soldiers and no civilians could have been affected by this spraying" was in fact true. There have been so far sense this subject has opened up some 300 disability clams filed at the VAC and another 400 inquires into the matter. If we the soldiers do not stand up and be counted, don't expect the VA to go looking for you. That has been the government's game in the past; you know to change the rules to include more people and then not to let anyone know. They can save money that way. They can always say well it was there for the use of, sort of like the joke of the married couple with the "it was there; It's not our fault that you didn't use it". And yes, I also know that it is not in our nature to bitch about our problems and some of the Dioxin exposure problems are not exactly what we want to talk about. There are so many problems and symptoms that are the result of Dioxin exposure that most of us don't even know which ones are and which ones aren't. The big two sort of take over the playing field, Cancer and Diabetes seem to take all the news medias time and efforts. Mostly because the other problems like nerve damage, chronic tiredness, sexual problems, any organ problems, toilet problems, and a way too many others to put down here aren't exactly great paper sellers and don't make very good sound bites for TV. We are after all living in a world of sound bites and short attention span viewers, or at least that is the way we are treated, and demonstrated by the lack of Agent Orange coverage by all of the media. Did you know that the Federal cabinet committee scraped the first Agent Orange session. Well it did, something to do with one of the members not being able to get to the phone at the proper time, and did you hear about it on CBC or CTV? They can tell us that the London explosions were more important and rightly so but this happened the day before on the 6th and they were too busy that day, talking to, translating her bull and watching the Homolka fiasco. Do some reading on the subject, figure out if you have a clam and remember if you don't claim you will never receive a pension from the VA. Hell, the worst thing that can happen is that you are turned down and then you would be in no worse a position then you are right now. Besides maybe your wife and kids could benefit from this. Tell us your story; it does help those that are sitting on the fence to make up their mind. This site sort of demonstrates that because there are more Guests then members. GUESTS remember you can also post here so tell us your story if it relates to Agent Orange / Purple and the Gagetown Spraying. I'm going to sent this to Art at agentorangealert.com also so I would like to say something here to the families of soldiers affected by this and also to the people that CFB Gagetown that we called our friends (even if they kept their daughters hidden when we went to town) during the years of spraying. Tell us your story, send it to Art and Myself ( Kentar@telus.net ) but tell it. The powers that be can only stave off responsibility when we are one on one, when we are 1,000 on one the results are not the same. Ken you are so right in believing that telling our stories will make a difference. yes it is true that old soliders may not like to talk about these sort of things but they need to realize that without their stories this merely goes away. No justice was ever won without a fight. Thank you Ken! -Art   ___________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Marilynn Last Name: Doherty City: Dartmouth E-mail Address: mare7@eastlink.ca Comments: I just found this wonderful website and my heart goes out to everyone and a big hug to you, Art, for setting this forum up. I was 14 when I moved to the civilian area of Oromocto(Scoullar St) in 1960. The civilian part of the town was just being built and my father worked on the base as a civilian draftsman.  My parents still live there. I remember the spraying every summer and the planes going over our house. We knew it was Agent Orange but never thought anything of it Of the ballpark 20 townie kids in school with me at the time (1960 - 1964), half are now dead. They died in the late 1960's, 1970's and 1980's and didn't work on the base or in the training area.  Most lost a young father during those years, civilian fathers who worked for the town as bank managers, or in the surrounding communities I have had health issues for 15 years and am disabled. One brother and a sister have severe arthritis also, chronic fatigue, muscle and joint pain and lung problems.  We live in chronic pain and have little quality of life. In 1962, at age 14, I nearly died from a liver disease and mono combo. Our family GP at the time suggested we test our water but it was never done. He probably thought then about the spraying but we didn't. My 54 yr old brother died of Pulmonary fibrosis two years ago and had skin cancer lesions removed each year prior to his death. My father has Parkinsons and my mother has had heart disease for 20 years and now Diabetes II.  My question is what happens to us civilians who didn't work for DND, who were young family members growing up in the town? Like young family members of the military who lived and went to school there? There is no phone number or department for us to call. I was in Oromocto last weekend and clocked the distance between Scoullar St and the perimeter of the training area.  It's only 4 kms.  I am livid and fighting hard behind the scenes for all soldiers and their families as well as us civilians but it's going to be a tougher battle for us. What galls me is that DND are asking for proof that a) you either worked on the base at the time (which a lot of townies in our civilian area didn't but were affected) or 2) have a dr's statement saying that your illness is the result of Agent Orange spraying.  Ha, can you think of a dr who is going to commit to stating that on paper? I want unconditional recognition by DND and DVA for all of us (military and civilian) who lived, went to school and worked there during those years, that the probability of the cause and effect from the spraying caused our health problems and deaths and for us to be compensated unconditionally, without proof. It is the only right, humane thing to do. I will do all I can to keep this issue alive for all of us, military and civilian. Keep up the good work! There's power in numbers.   Marilynn   Thanks for the big hug Marilynn...I needed that :) I am so glad that you found the website and thank you for your kind words. I am sorry to hear of your losses and of the suffering you and your family has endured. I believe there will be one helluva battle if the powers that be do not do the right thing. There is a parliamentary committee studying the agent orange situation. Although I must confess anything I have heard regarding the committee has indicated they are focusing on 1966 and 1967. BIG MISTAKE!!  This story is not going away. If this is not settled in a respectful satisfactory manner then there will be a severe backlash like there has never been before. The stage has been set.....everything is ready to go.....It is now a waiting game. We have a long hard fight ahead....but fight we will Maryilynn.  -Art __________________________________________________________   July 7, 2005   I have been advised that the Internet Service Provider will be doing upgrades to the server tomorrow (Friday July 8, 2005) so there could be interruptions. If things go "WONKY" have no fear..... its temporary :) -Art __________________________________________________________ July 7, 2005 The Office of The Hon. Andy Scott today has informed me that the parliamentary committee to study the agent orange situation that was scheduled for yesterday was cancelled due to "scheduling conflicts" of some ministers. Mr. Scott WAS available for the meeting via phone. -Art ______________________________________________________   July 7, 2005 Dear Mr. Connolly Someone forwarded me an emotionally powerful email that you appear to have written to a local radio or tv station. For years I have known about the spraying of agent orange in New Brunswick but did not know about its effects on soldiers and civilians in the area until recently. I am both someone who has worked for years as a journalist and as a peace and social justice advocate (our group Homes not Bombs had advocated for veterans experiencing Gulf War Syndrome). I am interested in following up on this and doing what I can to publicize this atrocity. Are you in touch with the folks in New Brunswick who spoke out a few weeks ago? Peace Matthew Behrens Toronto __________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net I must have hit a nerve there, when I wrote that letter to Edith Robb the editor of the papers (Daily Gleaner, the Telegraph Journal, the Times & Transcript and other newspapers owned by Brunswick News Inc., including the Oromocto Post) who wish you to remove any and all of their articles from your web site. I mention the names of the papers because the readers deserve to know which papers are trying to put a gag order on your site and once again keep the sick and dieing Vets, their families and the general public in the dark about Agent Orange. I wonder if she has shares in Dow Chemical. I must admit that I find it hilarious that my letter is considered and I quote "I trust you will get this message out to your members to save me further harassment" and then she has the gumptions to Harass you with the task of doing something about it. Hehehehehe. You might want to think of writing her a note stating that you have complied with her demands and that you wish no more harassment from her or any of her papers. There is no sense to send a complaint as any complaint is viewed as HARASSMENT, well if it doesn't agree with her assessment anyway. I haven't hidden my letter and it is down below for everyone to read. It is neither NASTY nor was it Harassment, and if she thinks so she might want to go back to the dictionary and look up both words. Nasty, she doesn't know the meaning of nasty.  Since she is the Editor, letters to the editor will probably not be printed unless they are about someone else, anyway. You know this sort of proves that they don't give a dammed about their reading public as everyone who has an interest in this Agent Orange Gagetown Spraying were or still are Their very own subscribers. Anyway these are my thought for the day or at least until my next one anyway. Keep up the good work Art, this site is needed for them that have moved away and don't have access to these small and obscure publications. And this Edith Robb may as she suggested "only be doing her job", but that has been the cry of every *** ******** through history. Fill in the blank yourself. Ken ___________________________________________________________________ July 7, 2005 Thank-you, Mr. Connolly, for adhering to our copyright.  Your explanation is accepted in good faith. As to the suggestion that we make a gift of the stories, while I appreciate the sentiment of the request, please understand that our company cannot give you what we do not own. Our content is sold under a licensing agreement to a distribution firm…we do not have the right to give away someone else’s property. I will also ask that you advise another member of your organization who responded in a rather nasty manner to my message, Kenneth H. Young CD, about the legalities of this issue. His e-mail address is kentar@telus.net. Again, I reiterate…it is not a case of Brunswick News responding in some unreasonable fashion or being money-grubbing or insensitive to your issue. We simply do not own the copyright to the stories and cannot allow their distribution or we will find ourselves in the unpleasant situation of being sued by our licensing agent. I’m sure you can understand that, and I trust you will get this message out to your members to save me further harassment. We are not indifferent to your cause at all, but in responding to your needs, we would find ourselves in direct violation of the rights of another group, the holders of the copyright to the news content. Sincerely, Edith Robb   Edith: But Edith it is about money..as you stated in your email Brunswick News SOLD the rights under a licencing agreement to a distribution company. "Money-grubbing" is your term not mine. You want me to get the word out to my "members"??  These are not my "members"...these are people with a common goal who share information, ideas and concerns. I think that definition would fit the word "friend" much better. They are my friends Edith. Good Luck Edith, I wish you well. -Art __________________________________________________________________________ July 7, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Dobbie City: Kingston, Ontario E-mail Address: kdobbie2@cogeco.ca Comments: Hi Art...   I have been out of the loop for a while looking after my health.   I was both astonished and outraged when I visited your site this evening and read that offensive email regarding copyright infringement. I am thoroughly disgusted by their flagrant attempt to control the news through attempts at bullying and what I see as a lack of journalistic integrity   It would seem that someone is trying to shut you up and I for one (among many hundreds and thousands of us) don't like it one bit.   It is not alright for you to show their stories, but it is ok if you pay them. That seems to be a double standard to me.   If the issue of copyright is so sacred to them, then they should not be asking for money, that is, in essence prostituting their claim to copyright which not only shows how morally corrupt they are but they are also showing just how much journalistic class they lack.    If these so-called newspapers ever want an interview from me again, it will be a cold day in Agent Orange Hell. We don't need them. We can and will make news elsewhere through other enlightened and distinguished news corporations.   They can have the dregs after everyone else has broken the stories. And believe me, there are many, many stories that will be forthcoming   And by the way, Edith, if you are reading this, perhaps you should learn how to spell copyright, it is not spelled copywright as you have put in your email. Time to open your spell checker or go back to grade school!!   From: Robb, Edith [mailto:edith.robb@canadaeast.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 01:46 PM To: webmaster@agentorangealert.com Cc: 'Haggert, Peter' Subject: Copywright violation on Agent Orange site Art, please post this in it's entirety and keep up the good work. Don't be put off by this, we can only grow stronger as the stories keep coming and being posted to your website.   All the best - Kenneth Dobbie Thank you Ken :)  You keep looking after your health bud..... This fight isn't worth fighting.....it upset me but the response has rejuevenated me...lets me see that there are others. that care...sometimes I wonder but I when that happens I just look at the "hit" counter and I see that yes indeed there are many of us...over 116,000 hit so far :)...We all have a much larger battle ahead..... lets fight THAT good fight -Art ___________________________________________________________________________ July 6, 2005 And Art:   You have my permission to print this copy written article, hehehe hehehehe   From: Ken Young [mailto:kentar@telus.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 4:22 PM To: 'edith.robb@canadaeast.com' Cc: 'jody.carr@gnb.ca'; 'artconnolly@rogers.com'; 'assistant2@jameslunneymp.ca' Subject: Ref: Your heartless letter to (agentorangealert.com) Copy of said letter:   -----Original Message----- From: Robb, Edith [mailto:edith.robb@canadaeast.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 01:46 PM To: webmaster@agentorangealert.com Cc: 'Haggert, Peter' Subject: Copywright violation on Agent Orange site Dear Webmaster: Content appearing in the newspapers the Daily Gleaner, the Telegraph Journal, the Times & Transcript and other newspapers owned by Brunswick News Inc., including the Oromocto Post, is copywritten and remains the exclusive property of BNI. To pick up any stories and display them on a Web site without reaching a financial agreement with our licensing firm, CEDROM, is a violation of our copyright. I am requesting that you immediately pull all such stories from your Web site and refrain from picking up any further content, unless you wish to make an arrangement to purchase it for your use. In that case, please contact me and I will put you in touch with our representative. Sincerely, Edith Robb, editor Canadaeast.com ************************************************************************************ And now my complaint. There have been hundreds if not thousands of deaths from this Agent Orange / Purple Gagetown spraying, due mostly to lack of information. We didn't know what was going wrong with our health and didn't know where to start to look. You (the News Media) didn't do any research into it in 1980 when it first came out and you also have only been doing sketchy work now. In fact if Mr... Carr and some ex soldiers hadn't talked to you, you wouldn't even have any articles to print unless they were copies of someone else's work. But we have talked to you and given interviews because we know that it is important that this news gets out to everyone here in Canada and anywhere else that people that are effected happen to be. You can't do that and you probably never will be able to get out to that many people no matter how many papers you may control. If it's money you want, it won't be coming from agentorangealert.com as that web site is non profit and has nothing to gain or loose by giving you free advertisement and it has amounted to just that because every time that I have read an article at his site I have gone to the source, or your papers. If you want credit for the articles then why don't you send him the article with all the by lines that you want and take the credit but to ask for money from sick and dieing Vets in the "Year Of The Vet" and in their time of need, is beyond deplorable and borders on sadistic. Kenneth H. Young CD LOL.... You have made this a postive thing Ken...You ARE The Spin Doctor...I wonder if you send your email to Letter to the Editor if they would print it...nahhhhhh :) Art __________________________________________________________________________ First Name: Sandy Last Name: Skipton City: Nova Scotia E-mail Address: info.needed@ns.sympatico.ca Comments: I agree with Kenneth Young. It is a shame that a newspaper does not want our 'family' to share their excellent reporting.  BUT, so be it. There are other sources. Guess I really don't want to buy their news if I can not share it when I find it important. Art, please keep up the good work and thanks for the site that permits us to share and help those that need it. Thank you sandy :) -Art _________________________________________________________________________ July 6, 2005 First Name: Kenneth Last Name: Young City: Nanaimo E-mail Address: Kentar@telus.net Comments: Well so be it, but don't let them run you off and keep up the good work. Corporate butt holes and Money grabbing burrowcrats will always put money before the welfare of the people so don't let it throw you off. Keep up the good fight. PS : Every time that you put a link to a story from one of their stories remember to also put a reference that the story was withheld from your pages because they want to be paid for it first. In fact you might want to insert their own letter to you each time. Negative publicity wouldn't hurt them a bit. Thanks Ken!!!  I needed that...You are absolutely right bud....it is the welfare of the people we care about and because of that I sleep well at night :) -Art _________________________________________________________________________ I received an email today which truly disappointed me. I keep forgetting that it is all about money. I thought I was doing the right thing.  I have posted both the email i received and my response. Please do not send any stories from the papers mentioned in her email. I dont even want to look at them. -Art   Dear Edith Robb:   I will as you requested remove all stories posted on the www.agentorangelaert.com website that appeared in any of the papers that you mentioned in your email.   It was not my intent to steal anything but merely try and alert people of the stories that are affecting your local area. This website is not a website that exists to make revenue, apparently unlike your newspapers, so my actions were completely innocent. Please excuse my naievity.   The stories in your papers were all informative and well written. I especially liked the one that appeared in the Oromocto post where I was interveiwed about the www.agentorangealert.com website. The reporter was very professional and I was pleased to participate in the interview so that your readers could be informed. By the way consider it a gift. You need not contact one of my representatives "to make an arrangement to purchase it for your use". Another observation...it would have been nice to receive a copy of the story...without charge.   Sincerely   Art Connolly   -----Original Message----- From: Robb, Edith [mailto:edith.robb@canadaeast.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 6, 2005 01:46 PM To: webmaster@agentorangealert.com Cc: 'Haggert, Peter' Subject: Copywright violation on Agent Orange site Dear Webmaster: Content appearing in the newspapers the Daily Gleaner, the Telegraph Journal, the Times & Transcript and other newspapers owned by Brunswick News Inc., including the Oromocto Post, is copywritten and remains the exclusive property of BNI. To pick up any stories and display them on a Web site without reaching a financial agreement with our licensing firm, CEDROM, is a violation of our copyright. I am requesting that you immediately pull all such stories from your Web site and refrain from picking up any further content, unless you wish to make an arrangement to purchase it for your use. In that case, please contact me and I will put you in touch with our representative. Sincerely, Edith Robb, editor Canadaeast.com _________________________________________________________